Oh great..overcards in a large pot (6max)

[Obliky]

Both villians in this hand have been playing aggressively post-flop..but i dont think they are likely to have garbage as i havent seen much pre-flop spewage with nothing.

Whats our plan for the flop/turn/river?
Also, how many outs would you give us on the flop?

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. MP posts a blind of $1.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP (poster) calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, MP folds, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (15 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero ???</font>

[Redd]

Given the fact that we're commonly either splitting/being freerolled by Button or we're behind raised behind, our 3-ish outs aren't looking so hot. This sounds awful in such a big pot, but with the cleanliness of our outs and the chance of getting stuck in between these two numbskulls, I don't hate folding here.

AJ seems like a reasonable hand for SB, but who knows really. I think you can count about 4 outs, because you'll have top kicker if you make a pair. If you think there's any chance you'll fold the button and maybe get a free card by raising, you should raise. Otherwise, I'd just call and re-evaluate on the turn. If it's called through and SB bets again, you'd probably have to fold UI. I don't think you can fold the flop though, because even counting 3 outs you have pot odds to draw (although that assumes the button won't raise). Overall I say raise.

*grunch*

Wow, tough one! IMO the pot is way too large to fold, so I guess the next question is whether raising increases our chances of winning or get us a free card on the turn. SB's bet is disturbing since he was so passive pre-flop. I'm putting him on AJ, KJ, QJ, or JJ and if he had the guts to raise the flop after it was capped pre-flop he will not fold to our raise. As far as BB goes, I put him on a KK, QQ, or AXs - also unlikely to fold. I don't think a raise increases our chances to win nor gets us a freebie on the turn. Hence, since I think the pot is too big to fold, I'd call and see what the turn held.

so what happened, what did you do??????

[adsman]

I'd say that the one player that you didn't want to see betting on the flop was the sb. You're risking getting trapped between him and the 3-betting preflop button. You have no real backdoor draws. You missed. I'm folding this one.

[Stealthy]

*grunch*

The peel seems obvious but I don't like it too much here. If the button has a hand worth 3 betting pre-flop he likely has one he will raise the flop with and it could be 2 back to you if SB gets stubborn. Another option is to raise but I like that even less, we could easily be committing ourself to a turn that could cost 3 or 4 bets to see with effectively 3 outs. Even if we can push the button out, which is doubfull we are kind of reliant on the SB being on a draw and not getting there. Even if both are LAG players our prospects do not look too great.

I hate to do this in such a big pot but our draw is very weak and I have to find a fold here. Turn our Ace or king into a spade I would call hoping it came back to me as just 1 bet more.

[adsman]

[ QUOTE ]
so what happened, what did you do??????

[/ QUOTE ]

He either called or raised as hero is in red.

[LoaferGee12]

[ QUOTE ]
Given the fact that we're commonly either splitting/being freerolled by Button or we're behind raised behind, our 3-ish outs aren't looking so hot. This sounds awful in such a big pot, but with the cleanliness of our outs and the chance of getting stuck in between these two numbskulls, I like folding here.

[/ QUOTE ]

[deception5]

I think this is a raise or fold situation. Since the pot is 16SB I'd probably go ahead and raise.