Late in a tournie, KK in the SB

#1 11-07-2005, 08:35 AM

I've got pocket kings in the SB. Raise in front of me. I reraise. Flop is disaster. What should I have done on the flop? I didn't figure him for those clubs. Did I make a donkey move and lay the worst bad beat I've ever laid on someone?

$10 dollar multi-table tournie.
16 players left at this point.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1200 (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG+1 (t21747)
MP1 (t1180)
MP2 (t16825)
CO (t14471)
Button (t45770)
Hero (t16580)
BB (t10258)
UTG (t4840)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 raises to t3600, 2 folds, Hero raises to t7200, 1 fold, MP2 calls t3600.

Flop: (t14850) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t9305 (All-In), MP2 calls t9305.

Turn: (t33460) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t33460) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t33460

Seat 7: Hero (small blind) showed [Kh Kd] and won (34810) with four of a kind, Kings
Seat 4: Villan showed [Qc Ac] and lost with a flush, Ace high

beenben · #2 11-07-2005, 08:43 AM

pre-flop- your-re-raise if you're going to raise here, push. You were pot committed by your minimum raise.

flop- you have to push or fold. You don't indicate which two cards he had(except that it was two clubs) or what your read on him was. The push is OK because you're going to have a very small M if you fold and although your behind to a lot of hands, they are not likely to be what he holds (aces, sets).

#3 11-07-2005, 08:49 AM

Original post has been edited. He held AQ of clubs.

Matador225 · #4 11-07-2005, 09:06 AM

Yea definitely push preflop. After your minraise you are pot committed so your push is fine. Nice work sucking out though.

#5 11-07-2005, 09:10 AM

So correct move was to push all in preflop? Thanks for the advice. I found myself in a very difficult situation on the flop but I thought going all in preflop was too aggresive. But I do see now that I was commited to the pot. Pot commitment was part of the dilema of seeing all those clubs.

#6 11-07-2005, 10:24 AM

A minimum reraise with KK is amazingly weak. With the stack sizes and size of the blinds/antes you should definitely push this preflop and hope for a call from a hand like AQs as you go into the race a favorite. If you don't push preflop you may get scared off by the clubs on the flop and decide not to push (which we can see you didn't have a problem with). I think a push preflop would be much better here than postflop.

#7 11-07-2005, 10:38 AM

OK, there is no way that pushing this flop is a donk move. Just because three clubs came out does not mean Villain has a flush, it is heads up, for god's sake. In all likelihood, Hero is still ahead here, and you definitely want to go all in to put maximum pressure on anyone with a club.

I agree that pushing pre-flop is better, though. You are definitely committed to play this hand all the way to the river, and while this flop should not be especially scary for you, any flop containing an A would be. Better to get the money in now, when you're the favorite, than on an A high flop, when Villain is the favorite.