Should I have called a floorman?

[private joker]

15/30 at Hustler, played in a 3/6 chip structure. I'm on the button, and there's a new player posting in EP who hasn't received his chips yet. When action gets to me, I raise. A loose, drunk, friendly guy in the BB calls. The poster announces a call.

When the flop is dealt, the poster receives his chips from the brush. While he is taking them out of his rack, the BB checks. The dealer places the number of chips in front of the poster's betting line that he needs to match -- that he owes the pot (6 chips: the posted blind of 3, and calling the raise). The player then pays what he owes, and the dealer scoops them into the pot. The player now puts another 3 chips onto the betting line, as the action is on him.

I see this, and action is to me. While this is going on, the drunk BB tells me, "I need a 9 to make a straight, and I'll get it! I'll suck out on you!" Well, I have the best hand now, and I can charge him 2 small bets to chase the 4-outer incorrectly. Since the poster put another 3 chips out as a small bet, I announce "raise," then I put 6 chips over the line.

The poster sees that I raised and asks who bet. The dealer tells him he did. He objects, saying he was just paying what he owed the pot. Of course, the drunk BB only wants the bet to be 3 chips, so he argues to the dealer that the poster didn't want to bet. The poster grabs his 3 chips back, and the dealer turns to me and says, "You can only bet 3 chips, sir."

Now one of the other players not in the hand says that action has already occurred behind the player's bet. The opponents now have information that I like the flop and want to raise it. I reiterate my case to the dealer, and she tells me the guy didn't mean to bet, and that I can't raise. So I sigh and put the 3 chips out, which the drunk BB happily calls.

Of course, the turn brings his miracle 9, and I lose the hand. The guy not in the hand who was defending my case told me I should have stopped betting the flop and called a floorman over -- now that the hand is over, there's nothing I could do. Should I have listened to him? I figured if the dealer is ruling this way, the floorman would too, and I didn't want to be a nit at the table and ruin a relatively friendly game. But it did cost me the pot.

Yes you should have called the floor, but i don't know why you think this cost you the pot. It may have, or it may have saved you $15. loose Drunk guy chasing the 9 very well may have called you.

[Randy_Refeld]

Yes you should have called a floorman. You shouldn't have to though, the deler should have called a floorman as soon as chips were palces into tthe pot and somebody wanted to take them out. There was action behind this player's bet so there is no question it should stand (even when there is no action behind you can't take your bet back), but when he indicated he wanted to the dealer shoudl have called the floor because the dealer is not to make decisions. If the player asks i fhe can take the money back the dealer can explain the rule, but when he says he wants to the floor should be called.

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]
loose Drunk guy chasing the 9 very well may have called you.

[/ QUOTE ]

But if I raised, his call would have been mathematically incorrect. He was getting 9:1 immediate to chase a gutshot (plus potentially more if the poster called and implied odds if he hit), but if I raised he'd be getting 11:2, and would have to either fold or make an unprofitable call. I play poker to force opponents to make these unprofitable calls, and getting robbed of that ability frustrates me.

[pokerrookie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
loose Drunk guy chasing the 9 very well may have called you.

[/ QUOTE ]

But if I raised, his call would have been mathematically incorrect. He was getting 9:1 immediate to chase a gutshot (plus potentially more if the poster called and implied odds if he hit), but if I raised he'd be getting 11:2, and would have to either fold or make an unprofitable call. I play poker to force opponents to make these unprofitable calls, and getting robbed of that ability frustrates me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then why did you bet? If you know what he is chasing, and you know he is getting odds to call, then you made the error of betting the flop. Wait and pop the turn on a blank, when he would not be getting the odds he needs.

All this assumes the card room would have let you pull your bet back.

I doubt the drunk man would have been calculating whether or not a call of the raise would have been mathematically incorrect. That said, though, I would have wanted to raise as well, and would have called the floorman over.

[mtgordon]

This makes me want to cry. Betting is still correct because the guy drawing to his four outs is not going to win 1/2 of the time (this is assuming poster will fold, otherwise use 1/3). For him getting a free card is the most +EV, calling a bet is still +EV, folding to a single bet is -EV, calling a raise is -EV. You will make more money betting and having him call then checking and letting him draw.

Back to the first issue. Drunk guys that have already declared that they are going to chase you down don't normally let a think like a raise get in their way. Normally raising would be better for you since you are making him draw incorrectly. However, in this case it would have lost you more money (more than likely).

In short: You could have called the floor. If you ever want to make someone stick to their actions you should call the floor. In this particular case not doing so probably saved you money.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

[ QUOTE ]
The guy not in the hand who was defending my case told me I should have stopped betting the flop and called a floorman over -- now that the hand is over, there's nothing I could do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bingo.

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't want to be a nit at the table and ruin a relatively friendly game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Always a good thing.

al

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]
I doubt the drunk man would have been calculating whether or not a call of the raise would have been mathematically incorrect.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say he cared about the math. I do. Players don't have to know they're making unprofitable calls to make them. I didn't want him to fold. I wanted him to make a mistake. (Also, another guy at the table laughed and told me the drunk "couldn't call 6 chips with that hand").

Anyway, it's a smaller point. I don't want to be results-oriented about the hand. There's also some issue with the original poster, who may have actually been shooting an angle -- he bets, and when I raise, he doesn't like his hand so much anymore. The only reason I don't think this is true is that I was the preflop raiser and he would have checked to me if he didn't like his hand. So I believe him that he thought he owed 3 more chips. But tough -- he should pay attention and the bet should be in the pot.

It sounds like the consensus here is I should have stopped and called the floor.

[RunDownHouse]

[ QUOTE ]
Then why did you bet?

[/ QUOTE ]
Good God, do you check every time you think you have the best hand but someone may be on a draw? Or do you simply not think before you post?