Tonight's WPT- PPM II notes

[Easy E]

Poker Party Million II tournament.

I missed the first 10 minutes, though I did catch the fact that it would be a limit tournament (hooray!)
I think that they should try different formats and games (including pot limit, if they can coordinate it properly for television) during next season.

Also, instead of starting EVERY SHOW with the intro to holdem, have extra episodes (like they are running before the WPT championship later this month) that go over poker basics, and repeat THOSE shows, of half hour length?, often throughout the 2003-04 season.

I came into the show just after Chip Jett nailed Dan C with the trip 6's.

Dan C seemed overly aggressive, betting into Chip on the previous hand (did Chip check-call and trap him?) and THEN betting into the raiser (Cowboy) when the 3-flush flopped and Dan only had a pair of Aces and no flush draw... of course, checking and probably folding the top pair isn't the greatest play, but Dan's kicker wasn't that good...

Mike Sexton comment " when opponent flops 2 queens..." Mike, Cowboy flopped a SET! Come on!

Later, when Dan C busted out, Vince's quote "Dan .. has to go back and watch some Rounders tapes." Vince, SHUT THE HELL UP! Just be quiet for the rest of the year!

Good to see them show the chip position with player shots after the first commercial break. Seem to be updating the chip count more often, last few weeks?

When the button raises your SB and you hold AJoff, why didn't Cowboy reraise? Setting a trap?

I liked Chip's attack of the blinds as the leader with Q6off... but won't they call more often due to suspicion, especially at limit poker?

Maureen has a wheel draw and raises Chip's bet on the 233 flop? Does she think her Ace will be good, if she catches it? Well, she did describe herself later as an instinctive player...

" Maureen doesn't even LOOK like a poker player" Vince, SHUT UP! SHUT UP! SHUT UP! What exactly does a poker player LOOK like to you, you twit?!

Vince AND Mike- PAY ATTENTION. When the three deuces were on board, they said that Howard needed an Ace to stay alive..... what about the case 2, you goofs?? Please, please PRETTY PLEASE spend more time editing your work, dammit!!

Cowboy bets his AT top two pair on the flop, bets the turn Jack... and then CHECKS the river? Overly cautious for a limit player, isn't it? Howard wasn't showing aggression...

At first I thought the commercials were a more reasonalbe 15-minute intervals... then they go back to 10 minute intervals again (sigh)

Chip Jett HAD to bet into Howard on the turn, after raising preflop with K8 and betting the flop... even though he didn't have anything. Howard wasn't showing much, have to fire the second barrel like he did. Mike, YOU should know that- explain it!

I thought Maureen's raise of Chip's flopped flush with A2 on an As5s4s3d turn was overly aggressive... does she protect against the four flush? She did say later in her exit interview that she thought that she was winning that hand...
Does she HAVE to bet the 9s river? If not, seems that she has to know she's beaten...

Next hand, Maureen calls with 96s... steaming from Chip's 86s?

Okay, stupid comment by Mike, repeated by Shana- "No man has EVER won the (PPM)" .... well, given that this is PPM II, what was the point of THAT dumb comment?

(I was going to rant about another Vince dumb comment- the clairvoyance one- but I'm tired of beating on the helpless....)

Maureen calls Howard's raise with A3d (has no flush draw) AND when she's short stacked? Does she assume that Howard's trying to run a tighter player over? Had she given up on the tournament at this point? Doesn't she have to take her image, in their eyes, into account?

So, where were the gratuitous comments along the lines of "Well, we'll FINALLY have a man win the PPM!" when Maureen busted? Huh?

I thought Cowboy's overcall of Howard's raise of Chip, with A3h, was a bit weak- reraise or fold here? Or is he suspecting a steal and wants to catch the flop, out of position? Not a good move.

Chip doesn't bet the top pair on the river, when Cowboy has been calling along.... because he doesn't think Cowboy will call the river? Or not worth the risk regardless? Seemed a little timid, given some of the Cowboy's overcalls and his less-than-tricky play up to that point.

ALL HAIL THE POWER OF PRESTO!! CRUSH THE MEASLY TWO PAIR! I'm sitting there thinking "Howard KNOWS the power of Presto- he won't fold to the flush bluff-raise"... and YES, PRESTO ROOOLES!!!

Howard also had a good preflop raise with AK next... and then a NICE flop bet with the trips! He should have delayed-bet the turn, though. It might? have confused Chip into calling? (or is Chip too good for that sucker play?)

When Cowboy was being aggressive, I liked his play. His 3-bet with 66 preflop was nice, aggressive with his set when the 3 diamonds were on board... Howard's 4-bet was also very nice.

... but their calls were questionable in some cases, it seems. Howard calling with K4off on a board of 56388... ?

Stupid Vince reply to Mike's question: "Howard is thinking about getting out of this game" Yeah, Vince, keep talking your hole deeper... made your later "focus" line look REALLY stupid and foolish.

Andy Bloch- NICE tux! Given that you didn't make the final table, guess you won't be doing THAT again!
I thought it was interesting that Cowboy Joe reads a book during the early rounds...

Cowboy BLEW a great opportunity, IMO, when he had Broadway, checked the turn to trap Chip... but immediately grabbed chips as if he would automatically call Chip if he bet? Was he setting up a river play? Chip probably? would have bet the turn without that move, since it was so unusual he checked and Cowboy lost some bets.

Weak Cowboy call with big slick on 8672 turn.. and THEN checks in the dark? bad, bad play...
When he's aggressive, Cowboy's game isn't too bad. I liked the way he committed to pair hands in the face of aggression, especially the time he called Howard's action when it was unlikely that Howard has T9...

Howard was very aggressive with a lot of straight draws (mainly low ones, I noticed). Was Chip THAT loose-aggressive? Howard did make some bad river calls when he caught little or nothing with those draws IMO... because of pot size?

NICE checkraise on the turn with Broadway, when possible ignorant-end straight comes (trapping Cowboy), by Howard. Couldn't believe Cowboy called it down...

Cowboy made a later bad call with AQ on the river with the Ace high... he seemed to do that way too often- because of his chip position, he had to gamble?

I thought Howard's aggression with 66, on a flop of Jh7h7black after Chip raised pre-flop, was really interesting. I guess Howard is REALLY comfortable at limit holdem... he looked it throughout when he was heads-up with Chip Jett.

Chip check-raises with 85 on 357 flop? The amount of aggression that Chip and Howard showed made it hard for me to think! I HAVE to start taping these shows, so I have a chance to review them and thinking about WHY...

Damn it all, now commercials are coming every FIVE minutes? Come on!

Vince: "we have a whale and a barracuda"- which was whom, Vince? SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP!

Chip seemed to be calling Howard's check raises without thinking much (auto pilot?). He won a few of those by catching cards later, but still seemed that he was either expecting Howard to hit the throttle, or was picking up something.

I think this was the ONLY smart comment Vince made in two hours " Don't try this at home (these are trained professionals)"

Howard got SO lucky several times at the end of the tournament, such as catching the trip 4's against Chip's top pair Jacks that Chip bet to the river. At least when Howard sucked out on the river later on, he had double-outside draw that he was playing with before catching the lucky river.
Those 2 hands, I wonder how the tournament would have ended up? I bet CHIP is wondering that too! He got flustered, it seemed, by the second suckout.

Vince, why don't YOU go back to ANNOUNCING Crazy 8 games? SHUT UP!!!

I was really surprised at Howard's call of a river raise, with Chip showing early aggression on the 6cJc4c flop, and a board of 6J463, with only the pair of fours...

On the last hand? it was obvious that Vince and Mike were letting their hole card knowledge affect their announcing. There was a 3-flush on the turn, his 2 pair wasn't THAT guarenteed....

Wow, what a lot of action in this show- hard to keep up with, just to take these notes. Not much chance to think about what I was seeing- I'll have to watch it again Saturday and try to reason some things out....

Signing off,
Easy "Siskel" E

[JTG51]

Later, when Dan C busted out, Vince's quote "Dan .. has to go back and watch some Rounders tapes." Vince, SHUT THE HELL UP! Just be quiet for the rest of the year!

I actually thought that was a good one. Dan looked like a fool to me. They played the clip (maybe you missed it) of him saying that he has "taken poker to a higher level" and that he's noticed all the pros make lots and lots of mistakes. Then he makes a terrible play limping preflop with JJ. I think that was the hand when Chip beat him with trip 6's on the turn.

Maureen has a wheel draw and raises Chip's bet on the 233 flop? Does she think her Ace will be good, if she catches it?

Wasn't that the hand where she didn't raise the flop and Mike said she should have? She just called then Chip hit a pair on the turn and won the hand if I remember correctly. I agree with Mike, she should have raised.

Cowboy bets his AT top two pair on the flop, bets the turn Jack... and then CHECKS the river? Overly cautious for a limit player, isn't it? Howard wasn't showing aggression...

Yeah, that was pretty terrible. I wonder what hand he put Howard on?

ALL HAIL THE POWER OF PRESTO!! CRUSH THE MEASLY TWO PAIR! I'm sitting there thinking "Howard KNOWS the power of Presto- he won't fold to the flush bluff-raise"... and YES, PRESTO ROOOLES!!!

I really doubt he was thinking about folding, I bet he was debating between calling and 3-betting. It also wasn't a bluff raise by cowboy, he was rasing for value with his two pair.

Howard also had a good preflop raise with AK next... and then a NICE flop bet with the trips! He should have delayed-bet the turn, though. It might? have confused Chip into calling? (or is Chip too good for that sucker play?)

When I saw the flop I was thinking, please bet Howard! I think he played it perfectly. Chip was calling every flop bet and most turn bets with almost any hand, I'm sure Howard noticed that. Also, he knows Chip isn't going to put him on a K when he bets the flop. He gave Chip a chance to make a really big mistake, which he did later when Howard flopped top set with JJ.

NICE checkraise on the turn with Broadway, when possible ignorant-end straight comes (trapping Cowboy), by Howard. Couldn't believe Cowboy called it down...

I thought that was beautiful also. He may have made a couple of plays that look questionable from our living rooms, but I really, really like the way Howard plays. He has impressed me more than any of the other pros, by far.

Howard got SO lucky several times at the end of the tournament, such as catching the trip 4's against Chip's top pair Jacks that Chip bet to the river. At least when Howard sucked out on the river later on, he had double-outside draw that he was playing with before catching the lucky river.

If I remember correctly (and I'm pretty sure) Howard had 20 outs on the turn to win the second hand with his T8. He had the double gut shot straight draw, but also had a flush draw (there were 3 hearts on the board), and pairing either of his cards was also good. Not exactly a big suckout, although the announcers made it sound that way also.

[Vehn]

My immediate thought on that howard T8 hand was "I bet the announcers don't notice its a double gutter straight draw".

[Easy E]

ONE- Later, when Dan C busted out, Vince's quote "Dan .. has to go back and watch some Rounders tapes." Vince, SHUT THE HELL UP! Just be quiet for the rest of the year!

I actually thought that was a good one. Dan looked like a fool to me. They played the clip (maybe you missed it) of him saying that he has "taken poker to a higher level" and that he's noticed all the pros make lots and lots of mistakes. Then he makes a terrible play

Well, maybe it made some sense then, but who is going to tell someone to watch Rounders TO IMPROVE THEIR GAME?

TWO It also wasn't a bluff raise by cowboy, he was rasing for value with his two pair.
I was speaking to the 3-flush that was on the board, which would scare some set holders from staying.

THREE At least when Howard sucked out on the river later on, he had double-outside draw that he was playing with before catching the lucky river.

If I remember correctly (and I'm pretty sure) Howard had 20 outs on the turn to win the second hand with his T8. He had the double gut shot straight draw, but also had a flush draw (there were 3 hearts on the board), and pairing either of his cards was also good. Not exactly a big suckout

I agree, the second one was almost a no-brainer call (and Mike/Vince... well, Mike should have picked up on it). The first one, however, was the big lucky catch of the four. Hey, you need luck to win....


I was sitting there during the show, thinking "How would the hands have played NL?" wouldn't it be interesting to see the same hands and participants with different bet formats? The WPT needs a version of Wilson's repeatable deal...

Anyway, wild show to watch!

[Nottom]

In Dan's Bio it said that he started playing after watching Rounders. I think Vince's comments were a little shot at the youngster after some of the things he had to say about the pros and then busting out first after a few questionable plays. I actually thought it was sort of funny.

[JTG51]

The WPT needs a version of Wilson's repeatable deal...

Ha, that would be great!

[J_V]

Howard made some big mistakes. He was obviously the best player among total fish though. The young kid came off a little cocky but everything he said was right. I have echoed those exact same sentiments myself. Many so called very good players are just plain overrated. And young players are chaging the game. Anyway, in the JJ hand, he did trap that chip jett guy and made a great laydown too.
Howard's A4 hand is inexcusable in my opinion. And howard should have realize in the 65c hand versus the KK hand, that people weren't reraising him unless they were huge. His play was far from great, it really wasn't even good. But it was still way better than most of the others.

[Inthacup]

Andy Bloch- NICE tux! Given that you didn't make the final table, guess you won't be doing THAT again!

Actually, there was a formal night on the boat. Since there was a session before and after dinner, what you saw was Andy playing after dinner on the formal night. People had time to go back to their rooms and change, but some didn't.

[bernie]

1st off...thanks for the tv schedules

many players seem to forget the fact that this is shorthanded. when it gets 3-4 way, many seemingly weak hands are very playable. K high can win alot of pots. bottom and mid pairs are golden. you have to call down a little more often than normal. there's alot of semibluffing going on. if you really study shorthanded play, youll see the validity of many of the moves you saw. other than the guy checking the str8. i couldnt believe that one myself. also in a shorthanded HU pot, game, a flopped flush isnt as common. so the old gal could easily think her str8 was good and the other guy was jamming a draw.

i only watched part of it so far, but this one had alot of tactical raising going on. (primarily from howard and chip) was there some bad plays? yes. (you could tell the experience level between someone like Howard and the cowboy, or the gal) but i didnt see much preflop. there was alot of trapping going on also. this was almost playing like a ring game the way they were playing, which i thought was kinda cool.

now to watch the rest of it....

cya

b

[Wingnut]

I didn't tune in until it was down to three-way (watching the Astros no-no the Yanks), but I have to say that the 30 minutes or so that I was watching might as well have been a slot tournament. Chase chase chase, fold and/or payoff on the river. It was like televising my home game. There seemed to be no thinking by the players, and the way it was edited (if that was even edited) it seemed as if they were playing A2WD poker. Mike Sexton's comment "you know guys, you are allowed to fold" was so apropos. The heads-up confrontation was more like a "who can suck out on whom"-fest. I don't remember seeing even one successful bluff (other than those that turned into a suck-out) during the heads-up (or even the three-way for that matter).

I guess I've decided I like playing limit, but watching no-limit. Good thing the majority of WPT is NL.

My 2 cents...