Tipping Story

[Rick Nebiolo]

So today I’m playing 5/10 fixed buy no limit at a local B&M and the “Stiff Report” thread below ended up inspiring me.

Mid-session comes a hand where I bet $200 or so on the turn. A regular opponent with a somewhat “difficult” personality calls all-in by pushing his remaining $150. I can tell difficult probably doesn’t like his hand since he holds five $1 chips back. In this and most clubs $1 chips that add up to $5 (the minimum bet) play and my observation is they usually go in when certain opponents are strong.

I win and the dealer pushes me the pot minus the $5. I don’t want to get any bad vibes from Difficult so I keep quiet.

But I stiff the dealer.

An hour later I get in another pot with Difficult. Once again we go all-in and I cover. My AK beats his JJ and this time Difficult keeps about eight $1 chips.

Before pushing me the pot this dealer looks over at Difficult and says: “Sir, five of those one dollar chips play.” Difficult puts in the chips with only a minor scowl.

So I tip the dealer $5. It just felt right [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[KCFire105]

I have no problem with this. When dealers, waiters...wages are based on performance (menial wage, good tip potential) they should earn it. I typically tip 20%-50% depending on service at a restaraunt (50% for a cheap breakfast that was good service). Poor service = 9%-10% tip. I see no reason to exclude dealers from this same level of accountability. The more I enjoy a dealer, the more I tip (within reason as to not erase my positive cash flow) Big pot = above avg tip if dealt well. And if I really enjoyed them, I will take care of them as they leave the table whether I won the last pot or not.

[Josh W]

Nice story, but...

I think your story illustrates that ultimately we tip for a job well done. The first dealer didn't get a tip, because it wasn't a job well done. In the name of opportunity, I think you should (and maybe you did!) tell the first dealer (away from the table) why they didn't get tipped.

Obviously, you shouldn't need to tell dealers how to do their job, but sometimes the need is there....

Josh

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
Before pushing me the pot this dealer looks over at Difficult and says: “Sir, five of those one dollar chips play.” Difficult puts in the chips with only a minor scowl.

[/ QUOTE ]

IF it can happen like this the dealer should tell the player to put the chips in. There are (or have been in the past) clubs where the player is allowed to tell the the dealer to STFU and refuse to put in the chips. In this environment the delaer should let the player ask for them.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
I think your story illustrates that ultimately we tip for a job well done. The first dealer didn't get a tip, because it wasn't a job well done. In the name of opportunity, I think you should (and maybe you did!) tell the first dealer (away from the table) why they didn't get tipped.

Obviously, you shouldn't need to tell dealers how to do their job, but sometimes the need is there....

[/ QUOTE ]

After he left the box I did speak with the dealer. I left this out of the story both for brevity and the fact that including it sort of ruined the flow (I wrote it in the first draft then edited it out).

~ Rick

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Before pushing me the pot this dealer looks over at Difficult and says: “Sir, five of those one dollar chips play.” Difficult puts in the chips with only a minor scowl.

[/ QUOTE ]

IF it can happen like this the dealer should tell the player to put the chips in. There are (or have been in the past) clubs where the player is allowed to tell the the dealer to STFU and refuse to put in the chips. In this environment the delaer should let the player ask for them.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the dealer's job in this club. That said, I usually don't have a problem when dealers fail to do this since it can run off a player or create a bad vibe. This is why I didn't hassle the dealer in front of the other player. But this particular player plays the angle WAY too often and the second dealer knew it.

The more I think about it, the more I realize it is debatable whether or not making this the dealer's job is good for the game. But if I have to think about better rules or procedures, I'd rather concentrate on NL betting where there are big problems [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

~ Rick

[Photoc]

Nice report [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

But this confuses me
[ QUOTE ]
“Stiff Report” thread below ended up inspiring me

[/ QUOTE ]

Most in this forum will have no idea what you're talking about because the "Stiff report" isn't below. It's in an entirely different forum. N, V, & G forum for those who are wondering.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
Nice report [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

But this confuses me
[ QUOTE ]
“Stiff Report” thread below ended up inspiring me

[/ QUOTE ]

Most in this forum will have no idea what you're talking about because the "Stiff report" isn't below. It's in an entirely different forum. N, V, & G forum for those who are wondering.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Photoc. I've got so many windows open I don't even know where the wall is anymore.

~ Rick

[Photoc]

It's always "behind you" Rick. The wall that is.

[bigfishead]

Rick,
Here's my copy n paste resonse to that "stiff report" your thread made me go read and miss my "pre-work naptime" lol

Ok we got a bunch of idiots here in this thread that actually think a monkey can deal. While most of you coudnt deal yourselves out of a paper bag.

This is going to be very very long but maybe it'll get 1-2 of you numbskulls to have a little respect for dealers.

Firstly, 20+ yrs ago there wasnt a decent sized game ANYWHERE in LV or CALIFORNIA that you could beat. EVER!!!...I mean EVER BEAT. Why? Because Games were handled (I dont mean baby limits) in one of two ways. 1. Self dealt by the players with a regular time collector that came around every 1/2 hr. Whats this equal? THIEVES dealing the games. And fully over 50% of the time the management & floorpeople were involved!! 2. When they did have dealers in the box in higher limit games, they were freaking MECHANICS!! Or...as was often done, you had 6 guys sitting on 6-7 cushions so they could get high enuf to see the painted decks!!! Where'd those come in from? MANAGEMENT!!

In the early 80's a partner/owner in a cardroom whom was also previously known as one of these thieves, was involved in creating the "California Cardroom Assn" Maybe he had a life changing experience hell I dunno. But this assn was HIGHLY involved in cleaning up the BUSINESS of poker. Soon you had dealers that were not thieves and were in fact taught things to watch out for to protect the game. The SOLE JOB of a dealer is to PROTECT THE PLAYERS AND THE INTEGRITY OF THE GAME. Thats it. WE(yes I am one) are supposed to be there to protect your freaking money!!

Nowadays there are many good staffs in the business. Some from the old days that understand this aspect well.

There are also many dealers and floor staffs that have no clue of the above mentioned.

here's a few long ass storys of things within the last 6 months at Bellagio that I have had to deal with yet was never "rewarded" in any way other than the $6.15hr I make in wages.

$300-600 (maybe higher cant remember but you get the drift) 2-7 Lowball. 5 mins before I push into this game I hear the dealer from it call for a setup and see him get one. Now I go into the game. Within 5 mins, I see a card with a fingernail mark come into the muck. I pull it aside, call for a setup, finish the hand, card still face down, floor comes with a setup but looks funny at me as I say "out of action", meaning this deck is no good. Hand over, floor looking over my shoulder, I say..."is it a deuce"? flip it over, sure enuf it's a 2. I break it, tell the floor "it got nailed", loud enuf for the table to hear me.

I inspect the new deck, (remember we have shufflemasters) stick green deack in machine, inspect 2nd deck, stick brn deck in machine, deal green deck. TWO HANDS LATER when I deal the green deck for only the 2nd time, I see a nail mark in a card AS I PITCH IT! Light caught it just right for me to catch this in-air. I call for a setup "out of action!!" Pull the card asside when the player mucks after missing on all 3 draws, the players are whining and screaming at my about "were paying time here" wtf is wrong now?" Floor comes over, I say, "gee think this is a deuce?" sure enuf when I flip it over it's a deuce. Now a little louder I tell the floor someone is nailing deuces. Nobody seems to give a shilt that I am protecting this game. How much did I make? $3 bucks for 1/2 hr down.

Johnny Chan is not, I repeat NOT known for tipping. He IS known for being a major heartache to dealers. I have dealt to him no less than 30 downs in the last 6 months and have not recd more than $5 bucks TOTAL from him. yet let me tell you he has jumped all over my ass when I called for a setup in the big game (they are normally replaced ONLY on the hour) after seeing a bad mark on a card. And after he said "dealer wtf are you doing?" I told him "bad card" he stfu but never replied in any sort of kind manner or in a greatful manner for protecting the game.

Or the time when the first pot was a time pot and the winner was on his cell phone and I didnt interrupt him for the 20 mnutes he was on the cell phone to collect the time, and Johnny jumps my shizzle again. But I calmly reply, Johnny I didnt feel it was polite to interrupt him while on the phone just to collect time. Johnny then stfu and walked till I was gone.

Or what about the time I see two guys playing opposite ends of the table in a red chip game. I catch something unusual in motions (casual motions actually but repeated) and tell a floor person you may want to put a camera on those two. Yep they were soon told they were welcom to play but not at the same tables. Hmmm havent seen them in a while. Was I protecting YOUR game?

or just last nite....$200 a point Chinese Poker. 4 handed. Floor tells me to collect $8 per player for time and get $5 per for myself. (This is standard for this game) So the guy that wins the most in the first hand gives me $50 bux, says "drop $32, give me $5 back, keep $13 for yourself. Not what they were told, and I dont say anything. BUT>>> 3 hrs later, lucky me, I get re-routed back into this game. Now it's 5 handed. So diff guy wins the timepot and I tell him $45 for time, $20 for me, $65 total. Holy crimany he goes apeshit. I point out the placard on the table that says $8 bucks per player. i call the floor but they arent paying attn and I'm being called every mfer in the book so when one guy says "jesus christ we've been here all nite dealer we tip you so you shouldnt care" I respond with a admittedly smart-assed comment, "why should I give you a break, you didnt toke me what you were supposed to last time I went thru here" Finally I just told them " I dont care, dont pay the rake, dont toke me, I really dont care. it aint gonna make me or the Bellagio rich." So the guy throws me $30 bucks, says "drop that" and throws me $15 bucks and says "thats for you". I say ty and carry on dealing. HOWEVER....15 mins later..."tilt-o-whirl" grabs my preset dealt deck (in chinese we deal out the next hand while they set the first, but they are left in front of the box till current hand is over) and scrambles em for the THIRD time!! The first 2 times I never said anything just looked at him and redealt. This time I dont even move to redeal for at least 30 seconds. Now he's calling me a mother fuka and everything else. This is too far...I tell him loudly..."hey...I aint here to be your mf'er, or called a mf'er. I just deal. I'm just the mailman I dont write the mail, I deliver it". You know that the other players were trying to say I was outta line? And 1 went to the shift supervisor on the side. After my down, I told him everything, and he told me not to worry about it. I wasnt out of line, he'd handle it.

Fantastic thing happens every year up at Lucky Chances near SF, Cal. They have 1 tournament each shift for the staff. the winner gets an netry and hotel into a major tournament. It gets dealt by PLAYERS!! They make an effort to also get the players that give the dealers the most gruff to deal. And the ones that are the most indignant towards dealers. USUALLY, within 15 minutes of a down these players have made 12-15 errors and while they are never ridiculed by the dealers, they are joked with, and the player/dealer is now gaining a respect for the dealers. I suggest doing this ANYWHERE it's ok with the local gaming commision/office. A fantastic new respect comes from players just like those that posted here in this thread.

I could give many more stories like the ones above. If you DONT want dealers protecting your game, just keep stiffing them and treating them like crap. We'll all leave the business soon enough for you to go broke then.

I'm off my soapbox and high horse now. Gotta get ready for work...killed my pre-work naptime for this!!