Three Bet and Lead Line Too Aggro Here?

[Jeffage]

50-100 game. 6 handed. I have 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] UTG and raise. Folded to button who 3-bets (he seems typical). Loose SB coldcalls 125 and BB folds. I call. Three to the flop of 7-3-2 rainbow. SB checks, I bet, Button raises, SB coldcalls and I take it to three bets. Both call. Turn is an offsuit queen. SB checks, I bet. Typical, right? What's your line if raised by the button? What if button mucks and SB checkraises? Should I be morried about an overpair based on the preflop flop action (meaning should I slow down on the flop)? Results later and apologize if this is uninteresting.

Jeff

[Paluka]

I certainly don't think you can play it this way and then not fold to a turn raise.

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50-100 game. 6 handed. I have 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] UTG and raise. Folded to button who 3-bets (he seems typical). Loose SB coldcalls 125 and BB folds. I call. Three to the flop of 7-3-2 rainbow. SB checks, I bet, Button raises, SB coldcalls and I take it to three bets. Both call. Turn is an offsuit queen. SB checks, I bet. Typical, right? What's your line if raised by the button? What if button mucks and SB checkraises? Should I be morried about an overpair based on the preflop flop action (meaning should I slow down on the flop)? Results later and apologize if this is uninteresting.

Jeff

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These situations are always difficult, and correct line of action isnt always clear, Preflop is obviously standard, and betting into the raiser on this flop is also standard. Once the Pfr raises your flop bet and the other guy coldcalls, I dont really see the point in building the pot further, since you can easily be drawing to 2 outs here and if you are ahead there will be many bad turn cards. I would just call the flop raise, and donkbet a blank turn. Given that the turn was a Queen, I think this is a safe enough card to bet out again. If youre raised again on the turn, Your read on the villain will have to guide you the rest of the way, if he seems normal then fold. If youre checkraised on the turn by the SB you should also fold, since him coldcalling 3 bets preflop, and then coldcalling on this dry flop and then coming to life on the turn almost always means set or overpair, and given the fact that you showed so much aggression, he is very unlikely to be bluffraising you.

[DrGutshot]

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50-100 game. 6 handed. I have 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] UTG and raise. Folded to button who 3-bets (he seems typical). Loose SB coldcalls 125 and BB folds. I call. Three to the flop of 7-3-2 rainbow. SB checks, I bet, Button raises, SB coldcalls and I take it to three bets. Both call. Turn is an offsuit queen. SB checks, I bet. Typical, right? What's your line if raised by the button? What if button mucks and SB checkraises? Should I be morried about an overpair based on the preflop flop action (meaning should I slow down on the flop)? Results later and apologize if this is uninteresting.

Jeff

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These situations are always difficult, and correct line of action isnt always clear, Preflop is obviously standard, and betting into the raiser on this flop is also standard. Once the Pfr raises your flop bet and the other guy coldcalls, I dont really see the point in building the pot further, since you can easily be drawing to 2 outs here and if you are ahead there will be many bad turn cards. I would just call the flop raise, and donkbet a blank turn. Given that the turn was a Queen, I think this is a safe enough card to bet out again. If youre raised again on the turn, Your read on the villain will have to guide you the rest of the way, if he seems normal then fold. If youre checkraised on the turn by the SB you should also fold, since him coldcalling 3 bets preflop, and then coldcalling on this dry flop and then coming to life on the turn almost always means set or overpair, and given the fact that you showed so much aggression, he is very unlikely to be bluffraising you.

[/ QUOTE ]

well I didn't like some of your poker tips in another thread but I think this advice is perfect.

-DrG

[DrGutshot]

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Should I be morried about an overpair based on the preflop flop action (meaning should I slow down on the flop)? Results later and apologize if this is uninteresting.

Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

If morried is short for more worried then that is awesome I've never heard that before. If it isn't, it should be.

-DrG

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50-100 game. 6 handed. I have 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] UTG and raise. Folded to button who 3-bets (he seems typical). Loose SB coldcalls 125 and BB folds. I call. Three to the flop of 7-3-2 rainbow. SB checks, I bet, Button raises, SB coldcalls and I take it to three bets. Both call. Turn is an offsuit queen. SB checks, I bet. Typical, right? What's your line if raised by the button? What if button mucks and SB checkraises? Should I be morried about an overpair based on the preflop flop action (meaning should I slow down on the flop)? Results later and apologize if this is uninteresting.

Jeff

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These situations are always difficult, and correct line of action isnt always clear, Preflop is obviously standard, and betting into the raiser on this flop is also standard. Once the Pfr raises your flop bet and the other guy coldcalls, I dont really see the point in building the pot further, since you can easily be drawing to 2 outs here and if you are ahead there will be many bad turn cards. I would just call the flop raise, and donkbet a blank turn. Given that the turn was a Queen, I think this is a safe enough card to bet out again. If youre raised again on the turn, Your read on the villain will have to guide you the rest of the way, if he seems normal then fold. If youre checkraised on the turn by the SB you should also fold, since him coldcalling 3 bets preflop, and then coldcalling on this dry flop and then coming to life on the turn almost always means set or overpair, and given the fact that you showed so much aggression, he is very unlikely to be bluffraising you.

[/ QUOTE ]

well I didn't like some of your poker tips in another thread but I think this advice is perfect.

-DrG

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Just curious, PM me and tell me which post of mine you didnt agree with, and tell me what you wouldve done in the hand and why. I think this would be fun, I know I have much to learn, and I love hearing other people's perspectives especially when they are different from mine.

[pipes]

Question for the specialists on here...say you are the button with AK. Do you raise Jeff's flop bet? I'm assuming many would but please correct me if that's not the case.

How do you play the turn if
a)Jeff calls raise and then donk bets
b)Jeff 3 bets flops and then bets

What about 66?

The answers to that may help clear up if the 3 bet on the flop has any value.

Jeff, is the 3 bet on the flop an attempt to define the hands and make sure you don't make a big mistake of folding the best hand?

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Question for the specialists on here...say you are the button with AK. Do you raise Jeff's flop bet? I'm assuming many would but please correct me if that's not the case.

How do you play the turn if
a)Jeff calls raise and then donk bets
b)Jeff 3 bets flops and then bets

What about 66?

The answers to that may help clear up if the 3 bet on the flop has any value.

Jeff, is the 3 bet on the flop an attempt to define the hands and make sure you don't make a big mistake of folding the best hand?

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If I had Ak, I would probably raise Jeff's flop bet, but once the other guy coldcalled my flop raise, I would be checking the turn if given the chance, and if Jeff bet into me on that turn card I would fold, since theres no way I have the best hand and theres no way I can win this pot, since im up against two guys that like their hands. If Jeff 3 bets the flop and leads the turn, folding AK unimproved becomes alot harder since Im now getting 10.5-1 to go to the river, whereas if he calls and donkbets the turn im getting 9-1. In both situations I have the odds to call assuming all 6 of my outs are live, but I would still fold getting 9-1 since im not closing the action and theres a significant chance my outs may not be any good. Getting 10.5-1, it would be alot harder to fold since Im getting a pretty nice overlay and im just a 6.7-1 dog to improve. I would probably call the turn and hope to suck out on the river, but I would fold the river unimproved.

[pipes]

Yes, I see your reasoning. What about 66?

If I 3 bet the flop, I think it would be primarily to ensure that I did not fold the best hand to a free showdown turn raise.

The SB is certainly making this more complex though.

But does the SB create a protected pot situation where the button would not bet 2 unpaired high cards on the turn? If that's the case is a check/fold on the turn too weak?

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Yes, I see your reasoning. What about 66?

If I 3 bet the flop, I think it would be primarily to ensure that I did not fold the best hand to a free showdown turn raise.

The SB is certainly making this more complex though.

But does the SB create a protected pot situation where the button would not bet 2 unpaired high cards on the turn? If that's the case is a check/fold on the turn too weak?

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I guess that depends on the opponent, specifically how aggressive he is with his overs. I personally would check the turn unimproved once the small blind coldcalls the flop raise. About your flop line. I understand your reasoning as to why you would 3 bet the flop becuz you think this line will make your opponents turn raise more legitimate allowing you to fold more correctly. But, I also think this play is dangerous, as you are building the pot higher and thus making it more of a catastophe if you do fold to that turn raise and you happen to have the best hand. But i understand that if you just call the flop and donk the turn the hero will be faced with many free showdown type raises, and this can put the hero in a tough spot also. No matter how this hand is played the hero will be in a tough spot. If the flop 3 bet will indeed make the villain play more truer the rest of the hand than I like it, but in most cases I will not be certain of this, so I would just call the flop and donk the turn.