King Offsuit X

AllIn3High · #1 10-24-2005, 09:01 PM

I've discussed this hand with a few people and they don't really like the way I played it, but I sort of do and figured you guys know best. Let me have it [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

MP1 plays oddly, shows agression in weird spots etc. [49/13/1.42 after 278 hands].
No reads on BB, but he seems below average, too loose and too passive. [25/8/1.33 after 54 hands]

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Ok, loose aggressivish player limps, I figure KT is best here.

Flop: (6.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, BB calls, MP1 raises, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Yay, TPGK, I 3-bet because I believe I'm ahead of MP1 a lot of the time and I'd like to see BB out of the hand.

Turn: (7.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, BB calls, MP1 raises, Hero calls, BB calls.

This doesn't please me but I don't think i can fold against this guy.

River: (13.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, BB calls.

Dunno, figured I'd go for an overcall?

Final Pot: 16.75 BB

W. Deranged · #2 10-24-2005, 09:05 PM

Ummmm... how else would you play this?

River call is good. A bunch of the hands you were behind are still ahead. Overcall gets another bet in if it comes. Getting three-bet sucks.

I'm willing to take your word for it that you can't fold to the turn check-raise. This is usually a fold on the turn, but you played with the guy and I didn't.

I think very often you simply got lucky and sucked out on JT here.

I'm interested to know what the criticisms are the "few people" had.

Jake (The Snake) · #3 10-24-2005, 09:11 PM

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River call is good. A bunch of the hands you were behind are still ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno. I don't think there are that many hands that villain could play like this that we aren't ahead of now. Q9 isn't very likely because of the flop raise and most of the sets would've raised preflop.

I think I prefer raising the river.

AllIn3High · #4 10-24-2005, 09:13 PM

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I'm willing to take your word for it that you can't fold to the turn check-raise. This is usually a fold on the turn, but you played with the guy and I didn't.

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Hmm... yeah maybe calling down here is too loose, i just have a hard time folding decent hands against these guys.

[ QUOTE ]

I'm interested to know what the criticisms are the "few people" had.

[/ QUOTE ]

They wanted to fold preflop, and some wanted to just call down on the flop.

Jake (The Snake) · #5 10-24-2005, 09:16 PM

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They wanted to fold preflop, and some wanted to just call down on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably time to start asking for advice from other people.

hobbsmann · #6 10-24-2005, 09:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They wanted to fold preflop, and some wanted to just call down on the flop.

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Probably time to start asking for advice from other people.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think this is good advice.

The Goober · #7 10-24-2005, 09:25 PM

I like everything except the river - I'd raise it since BB isn't likely to call. BB's play feels like a flush draw - even LP fish can usually fold a mid pair for 2 cold on the flop, especially with a pre-flop raiser in the hand who could have an overpair. I agree with Jake that we probably just sucked out on MP1's two pair. Also, even LAGs tend to be a bit less likely to 3-bet the river without a very strong hand, so we may not get 3-bet when we're behind to Q9 or 22 (he might fear KK or AQ... although if he's not an idiot he knows we don't have AQ).

jason_t · #8 10-24-2005, 09:26 PM

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They wanted to fold preflop, and some wanted to just call down on the flop.

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Misplayed on every street.

AllIn3High · #9 10-24-2005, 09:38 PM

It's tough when you get conflicting advice, it sounded wrong tho, so I figured I'd run it by the experts [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Folding the turn is probably correct most of the time, and I should have raised the river, I agree that it really looks like BB is on a flush draw.

Thanks for the advice.

results:
Monkey in MP had J9o, BB had a badly played ATo

W. Deranged · #10 10-25-2005, 12:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

River call is good. A bunch of the hands you were behind are still ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno. I don't think there are that many hands that villain could play like this that we aren't ahead of now. Q9 isn't very likely because of the flop raise and most of the sets would've raised preflop.

I think I prefer raising the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right. There are a bunch more two pair hands than there are sets here, particularly when we account for the pre-flop action. A hand like QT may even call a raise here.

I think we could run some hand ranges here but I'm confident it'll confirm that raising is better here. So I'll change my vote to "raise the river."