AA in BB

[beekeeper]

Home game, NL HE, 20 players, 1700 starting stack, 25/50 blinds to start, blinds double every 10 minutes.

First hand of this tournament. I'm in the BB at a table of 10 with 5 limpers, including winner (4th position) of 1st tournament, who plays/calls with anything. I have AA in BB.

Pot = $325

I raise $200 ($250 all day). Four callers, beginning with 4th position.

Flop: Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Pot: $1325

I think for a while and go all-in for $1,450. My decision is based on (1) 4th position has shown down god-awful hands and has drawn out all night so far, so I'm trying to bet an amount I think he might fold to, and (2) The players to act after 4th all said "pot odds" as they called my initial raise, so I also want to give them poor odds to call.

Only 4th position calls. He turns over J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], proceeds to catch runner runner diamonds, and kills my aces.

<font color="brown"> What can I do against a player like this? </font> I know I "want" him to call in that situation, but this guy sucked out on everyone the whole night. He knocked all the better players out in 2 tournaments by going in with way the worst of it, and sucking out with long-shots, and winning 2 tournaments. Everyone was shaking their head. Finally, in the last tournament, he went out in like the 2nd hand, playing the same junk.

<font color="brown"> Also, am I wrong to hate playing against someone like this? </font> I feel like the rest of us are playing poker while he's gambling. I've played against him for a while, and inevitably he either wins it all or is out before the blinds go up. <font color="brown"> How do you neutralize someone like this? </font> Finally, <font color="brown"> why is he calling my preflop raise and my post flop bet with that hand? </font>

[4_2_it]

You are an overwhelming favorite:

pokenum -h ac as - jd 5s -- qd 7d 3c
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 3c Qd 7d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
As Ac 916 92.53 74 7.47 0 0.00 0.925
5s Jd 74 7.47 916 92.53 0 0.00 0.075

Don't complain. Bad beats happen to everyone. If I lived close by I would love to come to your game. If you can't beat someone is terrible at poker, you don't have a prayer against anyone who knows to play. (If you don't see the wisdom of this, please let me know and I will try to elaborate.)


Your pre-flop raise didn't price anyone out (you were giving caller #1 5/2 odds and it just got better). Make a raise of $500-$750 preflop and get heads up or take down $325.

[beekeeper]

[ QUOTE ]


Your pre-flop raise didn't price anyone out (you were giving caller #1 5/2 odds and it just got better). Make a raise of $500-$750 preflop and get heads up or take down $325.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought my preflop raise was low. I was trying to narrow down to 1 caller and I was worried a bigger raise would chase everyone out. I've been making big raises preflop with AA, KK because I want to at least win some $ off them, but I've been reading books that say that you shouldn't be afraid of 1-2 callers with your big pairs.

In a tournament setting, when you're trying to accumulate chips, and particularly in a game like this where your starting chip stack is comparitively low relative to the blinds, should you just raise big with your big pairs and be content to try to win preflop?

[SheridanCat]

[ QUOTE ]

In a tournament setting, when you're trying to accumulate chips, and particularly in a game like this where your starting chip stack is comparitively low relative to the blinds, should you just raise big with your big pairs and be content to try to win preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm guessing you already know the answer to this. Of course, you want action.

Remember, you're trying to accumulate chips and you won't be able to do that if you just steal the blinds occasionally with the best possible hand. Sure, you need to make plays for the blinds, but you also need to charge the drawing hands and worse pairs to play with you. If you don't want competition with Aces or Kings, when do you want it?

In most hands, I prefer to keep the pot smallish initially. So, maybe raise 2-3x the BB and see what develops. I'm happy to have a caller or two against my aces. My goal is to double up or better, so I gotta invite company.

Also remember, if you can't lay down your aces to very bad board, you're better off not playing them. In your example you were a huge favorite and just lost. Them's the breaks, but rest assured you earned a lot of Sklansky dollars on that hand.

Regards,

Troy

[4_2_it]

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I've been reading books that say that you shouldn't be afraid of 1-2 callers with your big pairs.


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1 or 2 callers absolutely. You are an overwhelming favorite.

Your less than pot sized raise gave odds to 4 or 5 players to call with hands like 23s, 26o, 79s, etc. With 5 players to a flop you are still a favorite, but are probably only 25-30% to win the hands (of course each of the 5 callers is between 10-15% individually but as a group they will beat you.)

You are trying to stack someone when you have AA and KK. You will never get 78s or 35o to put all their chips in the middle unless they probably have you beat. You do not want 3 drawings hands calling you when you have AA because unless they hit their you aren't going to extract much from them. You want one or two hands like QQ,JJ, TT or AK calling you.

[Pov]

[ QUOTE ]

You are trying to stack someone when you have AA and KK. You will never get 78s or 35o to put all their chips in the middle unless they probably have you beat. You do not want 3 drawings hands calling you when you have AA because unless they hit their you aren't going to extract much from them. You want one or two hands like QQ,JJ, TT or AK calling you.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is sound advice, but probably not totally optimal for the game the OP is playing in. If the 87s hits a pair of 7's he's calling your all-in - these types of horrible players simply cannot let anything that connects at all go. Of course you should still bet much larger pre-flop in this example - if they have a pretty hand like a suited conector or a small pair, there is no way they can let it go. Just don't raise so much preflop you can't make them incorrect to draw with 1 pair on the flop when you go all-in. Crush them.

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

You are trying to stack someone when you have AA and KK. You will never get 78s or 35o to put all their chips in the middle unless they probably have you beat. You do not want 3 drawings hands calling you when you have AA because unless they hit their you aren't going to extract much from them. You want one or two hands like QQ,JJ, TT or AK calling you.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is sound advice, but probably not totally optimal for the game the OP is playing in. If the 87s hits a pair of 7's he's calling your all-in - these types of horrible players simply cannot let anything that connects at all go. Of course you should still bet much larger pre-flop in this example - if they have a pretty hand like a suited conector or a small pair, there is no way they can let it go. Just don't raise so much preflop you can't make them incorrect to draw with 1 pair on the flop when you go all-in. Crush them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice assist. Thanks. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
<font color="brown"> What can I do against a player like this? </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

The only thing u can do against such people is to play ABC poker, he can`t draw out on you forever. You should be glad he called this hand. Just play your cards right, and in the long run he will pay you off with his terrible calls.

I love to play against such players, so should you.

[pzhon]

It is very important to know how to beat a calling station. Value bet, value bet, value bet. Don't bluff. (Occasionally, you may find profitable bluffing spots, but these are very rare. See this example.)

Sometimes the calling station will hit a draw. Sometimes he will actually have a better hand than you. However, you will win on average. You don't deserve to win 100%, and you won't, because it is not chess. You will win much, much more against calling stations than against better players.

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why is he calling my preflop raise and my post flop bet with that hand?

[/ QUOTE ]
It's worth thinking about this for other players, but my guess is that he called without looking at or thinking about his cards. He is there to gamble. You want players like that in your game. You want him to win occasionally so that he keeps playing.