Ugh - how to get all the money in when behind....

RevAgain · #1 10-19-2005, 10:01 AM

And none when you're ahead...

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

River: (5.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 13.75 BB

Results in white below: 
UTG+1 has 7h 7c (four of a kind, sevens).
Hero has Ad Ah (full house, aces full of sevens).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins 13.75 BB. 

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Hot on the heels of my insistence on taking pocket queens to the river against an incredibly loose passive player who has 2%PFR but raised in UTG+1 with my QQ because no overcards came.

If I don't play for a week I seem forget everything I ever learnt about the game. Arse.

Edit - BTW not upset about my play with aces, I had him on a big pair and figured he had me on a big pair or AK and checking might get him to bet out on the river and then call the raise. According to that annoying Fundamental TOP I couldn't have played much worse though.

@bsolute_luck · #2 10-19-2005, 10:04 AM

funny thing about this hand: you should have lost a lot more since i'm assuming he was going to c/r you on that turn. so be happy you goofed this time [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

RevAgain · #3 10-19-2005, 10:10 AM

But if I bet the turn (and yes he would have checkraised) the RNG would then probably have spat out a different river card too and I would have scooped the pot! So it was doubly annoying I didn't bet that.

#4 10-19-2005, 10:14 AM

Grunching...

Flop: (I won't read the results until after I post...) When UTG+1 wakes up with apparent rags on the board is screams "I'VE GOT A (low)SET!" and I think his 3-bet confirms it. I would have played it the same but it sets the tone for later in the hand. (I guess he could have 56 for the str8 but I doubt it)

Turn: Where is your bet??? Even if he had a set on the flop you now have top set. Are you fearing a c/r? If so, why? I got flamed on this forum the other day for doing this and it left a brand. I think he saw the A and was afraid hence the check, you slowed up, and he ended up getting a monster free card on the river because of it.

River: Based on my earlier hand read, I think he now has quads, as such I would have only called down here. I know we've got a boat but I think we're beat.

p.s. I hope I'm wrong and thanks for posting this because I think it is a great example!

numeri · #5 10-19-2005, 10:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
River: Based on my earlier hand read, I think he now has quads, as such I would have only called down here. I know we've got a boat but I think we're beat.

[/ QUOTE ]
When do you fear quads? Hopefully not after Villain's first bet. He could easily have 44 or 88 as well. I might consider it a possibility after the 3-bet, but there are still 6 combos each of 44 and 88, and only 1 possible 77. If he has it, so be it. Hero played the river perfectly.

car ramrod · #6 10-19-2005, 10:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
River: Based on my earlier hand read, I think he now has quads, as such I would have only called down here. I know we've got a boat but I think we're beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

BS. What if he had a set other than 77's? No way can you pinpoint his hand to exactly 77. I am raising this river all day every day.

RevAgain · #7 10-19-2005, 10:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Grunching...

Flop: (I won't read the results until after I post...) When UTG+1 wakes up with apparent rags on the board is screams "I'VE GOT A (low)SET!" and I think his 3-bet confirms it. I would have played it the same but it sets the tone for later in the hand. (I guess he could have 56 for the str8 but I doubt it)

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, given the title of my post it's pretty obvious I ended up losing and only one hand beat me.... that said yes he could have had the set but more often a set waits until the big bets kick in before waking up. He was very tight passive preflop and I thought it was more likely he had a vulnerable overpair, tens to kings.
[ QUOTE ]

Turn: Where is your bet??? Even if he had a set on the flop you now have top set. Are you fearing a c/r? If so, why? I got flamed on this forum the other day for doing this and it left a brand. I think he saw the A and was afraid hence the check, you slowed up, and he ended up getting a monster free card on the river because of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

No I am not afraid of the check raise, if I bet out here he is throwing away a non set hand. I don't put him on a set yet, I still think it's more likely he has a big pair. I am thinking kings or queens. My reasoning (not saying it's right, but this is what it was) is that I can get two big bets out of him on the river if a rag falls, pretending to be scared of the ace myself. He has shown a lot of strength but because he bet the flop so hard I think the ace will scare him and if I bet he may fold now. He wasn't a loose player.
[ QUOTE ]

River: Based on my earlier hand read, I think he now has quads, as such I would have only called down here. I know we've got a boat but I think we're beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're had a good inkling of the result from the title - there is no way I am ever not three betting this or calling the cap. Once it's capped I am obviously worried about quads though.

I can certainly see your reasoning for putting him on a flopped set and I'm not saying I played it perfectly, there's no reason he can't have the overpair the way he played it though.

Cheers for the feedback

#8 10-19-2005, 10:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
When do you fear quads?

[/ QUOTE ]

I fear quads because of how aggressive villain was based on his flop and river play. I think he knows hero has the boat but doesn't care because he's got the quads.

I am the first to admit I do not have a lot of experience, but, I've had at least 4-5 boats sunk by quads like this and it was the first thing that came to me when I saw villians play.

That being said, you're right...you can't fear quads otherwise you miss a lot of bets but I only would have called after the 3-bet on the river.

numeri · #9 10-19-2005, 10:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
When do you fear quads?

[/ QUOTE ]

I fear quads because of how aggressive villain was based on his flop and river play. I think he knows hero has the boat but doesn't care because he's got the quads.

I am the first to admit I do not have a lot of experience, but, I've had at least 4-5 boats sunk by quads like this and it was the first thing that came to me when I saw villians play.

That being said, you're right...you can't fear quads otherwise you miss a lot of bets but I only would have called after the 3-bet on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you think villain would play 44 or 88 this way, as well as 77?

Also, why would villain put us on a set? We checked the turn with our set the way Hero played the hand.

#10 10-19-2005, 10:39 AM

Cheers back Rev! I learned a TON on this post alone. No, I do not claim to be a master hand reader...your title did guide me a little. I hope you stuck to the villian later in the session!

The main questions here are when do you slow down with a boat (if ever) considering all boat vs. higer hand are going to generate huge pots? I guess never at micro-level.