Hey, I'm GoT's roomate

#1 10-17-2005, 04:57 PM

Hi,

This is my first time posting on 2 plus 2, so i thought i'd introduce myself to the community before i do so. My name is Seth, and my roomate is Guy on Tilt (GoT). I've only been playing seriously for two weeks or so. GoT agreed to help me along while i'm learning more advanced strategy, and Part of our agreement is that i post regularly in the Short-handed section of 2 plus 2.

Here's a hand I played during a session yesterday. I have two question about my post-flop play on this hand:

1. On the turn and river is it right to call?

2. if I am out of position, and opening each betting round on the turn and river, do i check-call, or bet out?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero raises, 2 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG caps, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

River: (8.75 BB) 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.75 BB

MAxx · #2 10-17-2005, 05:29 PM

Welcome.

I don't play 1/2, and have not in a long time...but I imagine that the game is much more passive than what I am used to overall. Now a read here could easily sway the decision here, but this looks like a ton of action on a near drawless flop. It looks to me that you have made it pretty clear that you have an ace and are at least representing a very good kicker.

Again the standard 1/2 player or someone I viewed as passive, I think you could find a turn fold. I'd think you are usually drawing to 5 outs here at best, but they should be discounted to at least 4 (maybe less) for the times you are drawing dead on the turn. If that is the case, you just don't have the odds to draw.

Now if you view the villain as overly aggressive and/or a wild bluffer and you think there is a very good chance you are already ahead, then calling down would be correct.

It would also be helpful if you knew the villains pf tendencies, and whether he usually plays big hands fast or slow on the flop/turn.

Typically, I'd think folding the turn to the standard 1/2 player would be correct.

cockandbull · #3 10-17-2005, 05:29 PM

Why did you three bet his c/r? Once he caps and leads the turn i'd prob find a fold here. The board isnt draw heavy and most 1/2 players are quite passive from what i can remember.

obsidian · #4 10-17-2005, 05:36 PM

Passive players don't c/r then cap A high flops into a PF raiser unless they have TPTK or better (usually the latter). Especially considering this board has absolutely zero draws. Folding the turn unimproved looks like a good idea barring a read this villain is a maniac. The cards I will call down with are a Q (hoping to beat A7o), A (now ahead of Q7), or 9 (might put a raise in there with this one).

#5 10-17-2005, 06:13 PM

I knew i had him beat on the flop, but when he kept opening on the turn and river it made me unsure. So, i decided to call him down, because i thought there was a good chance i was still good.

Turns out he'd c/r on the flop with pocket 4's and cought one on the turn.

cockandbull · #6 10-17-2005, 06:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I knew i had him beat on the flop, but when he kept opening on the turn and river it made me unsure. So, i decided to call him down, because i thought there was a good chance i was still good.

Turns out he'd c/r on the flop with pocket 4's and cought one on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand this is four handed and he somehow managed to really mess this hand up, but in all honestly how often do you feel you are best given the flop action with TPNK. If your read is that you have him, then there is nothing much anyone on these boards can do in telling you how to play the hand. Sometime i know an opp is full of it and make my decisions based on that, however posting hands like that without a read isnt going to help you improve.

chiachu · #7 10-17-2005, 06:29 PM

im very new to short handed...
would calling the flop raise planning to call a turn/river bet be a bad line to take against an unknown here?

callmedonnie · #8 10-17-2005, 07:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I knew i had him beat on the flop, but when he kept opening on the turn and river it made me unsure. So, i decided to call him down, because i thought there was a good chance i was still good.

Turns out he'd c/r on the flop with pocket 4's and cought one on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

For the future you should post whatever reads you have. You must have had one if you are able to say "I knew I had him beat on the flop."

Three betting the flop is something I would only do against a very aggressive opponent. It sounds like he is aggressive if you knew you had him beat on the flop, regardless of his c/r in which case I would probably call down.

Did you still think you were ahead after the cap? If you thought you were ahead before the flop, he would have needed to have an A4, Q4, 74, or 44, or two hearts (which makes sense for a c/r but not a cap) to go from behind on the flop and then ahead on turn.

2+2 wannabe · #9 10-17-2005, 08:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
im very new to short handed...
would calling the flop raise planning to call a turn/river bet be a bad line to take against an unknown here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I figured this would be standard on this flop as well

oreogod · #10 10-17-2005, 08:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
im very new to short handed...
would calling the flop raise planning to call a turn/river bet be a bad line to take against an unknown here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I figured this would be standard on this flop as well

[/ QUOTE ]

thats what I was thinking. But its awesome hed capp w/ 44.