Two River Questions

mojobluesman · #1 10-11-2005, 03:00 PM

Hand #1

MP2 is VPIP 30%. He donk bets the River 3.

The question is:

Do I raise knowing full well he might have just caught his inside straight and will pop me again (and I'll feel compelled to call) or do I hope he had pocket 33s or A3s and reraise him. I can't too many other things he could be playing.

Note: If I just call, I may get UTG to call and get the extra bet without risking a re-raise.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (18.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (11.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
UTG checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

River: (15.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG checks, MP2 bets, MP3 folds, Hero ?.

Hand #2

No read on CO.

Not the same situation, but I got popped on the river. I couldn't see much that he could be playing where the 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] would help other pocket 33 or A2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Maybe 55 slowplayed to the river. Bluff?

Call this river?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 4 folds, CO calls, 3 folds.

Flop: (5.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

River: (5.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero ?.

irishpint · #2 10-11-2005, 03:05 PM

call both. with no draws on the board im assuming UTG made it this far and will call the river and i like that better than raising, folding him, and the prospect of getting 3bet. in hand 2 we cannot fold certainly but 3betting seems nuts so another callsky.

mojobluesman · #3 10-11-2005, 03:10 PM

Assuming UTG wasn't in hand #1, is raising better or should I just call there - semi-assuming the worst about the donk bet?

irishpint · #4 10-11-2005, 03:11 PM

<blockquote>En respuesta a:<hr />
Assuming UTG wasn't in hand #1, is raising better or should I just call there - semi-assuming the worst about the donk bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

if he wasn't in the hand i'd raise. i still might in the heat of battle since if the jackass caught his inside straight well i'd be very upset. more likely he is just a goofball with maybe 2 pair or maybe just 2 cards.

2+2 Junkie · #5 10-11-2005, 03:16 PM

Hand 1- Raise, beat only by 4 5, which isn't that likely.
Hand 2- Call. You are probably beat, but call. I assume this is called a value bet, which I still don't understand because you aren't going to get a call by a busted flush draw, but you will get raised by a flush or a straight or trips, two pair, you name it.

deception5 · #6 10-11-2005, 03:23 PM

Hand 1: I like going for overcalls here. You very likely have the bettor beat and will usually get at least one more call if you call which is the same you'd get if you raised (unless the other players are truly calling stations).

Hand 2: There are a ton of hands you beat that would raise that river. If you never folded an overpair heads up for one bet on the river you wouldn't be making much of a mistake.

SlantNGo · #7 10-11-2005, 04:15 PM

Hand 2 is a no-brainer call.

Hand 1 is a bit trickier. I assume MP1 is all-in, correct? Otherwise, go for overcalls. The donkbet is more likely to be a weak Ace or King or two-pair than a straight IMO. However, I think calling is the safer option because the overcall is likely in this case (large pot & not much of a possibility of overcaller holding a missed flush draw).

deception5 · #8 10-11-2005, 04:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I assume MP1 is all-in, correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't even catch this but MP1 folded the turn. It says (5 players) but there are actually 4 one of which has already folded. Given that I change my response to a raise.

DeathDonkey · #9 10-11-2005, 04:22 PM

Hand 1: Raise and cap.

Hand 2: Call and see his clubs.

-DeathDonkey

#10 10-11-2005, 04:32 PM

(more grunching!!)

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #1

Do I raise knowing full well he might have just caught his inside straight and will pop me again (and I'll feel compelled to call) or do I hope he had pocket 33s or A3s and reraise him. I can't too many other things he could be playing.

Note: If I just call, I may get UTG to call and get the extra bet without risking a re-raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would not be predicting the kind of junk they might bring to the river. So, I think equity here dictates you ignore that and look for maximum value. Having said that, I think if you raise, it is likely that MP2 will call the raise with a worse hand, giving you the same value, and you also may get called by UTG for an extra 2 big bets.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #2

No read on CO.

Not the same situation, but I got popped on the river. I couldn't see much that he could be playing where the 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] would help other pocket 33 or A2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Maybe 55 slowplayed to the river. Bluff?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is different. CO could have a wide range of hands that beat you here, for example a slow-played set. I bet/call the river.

...I'm interested in seeing the responses post-grunch...