Clueless on the River

#1 10-11-2005, 12:13 AM

After two days of agony and stress, I'm back to playing, posting and discussing strategies. Take a look at this one:

BB is 21/5/1.1
CO is 57/4/1.0

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is MP with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, CO calls, BB folds.

River: (9.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero....

I raised the turn donk (not sure if that was smart), but didn't expect a cold caller from behind. What's my play?

Also, is it just me, or does everyone feel like they're facing a donk bet on the flop and turn EVERY SINGLE HAND tonight?

Lmn55d · #2 10-11-2005, 12:23 AM

I wouldn't raise the turn . A passive player is betting into you...I think his most likely hand is a king or better and you can't fold to a 3bet. The river is a little tough. This guy is loose so he can be holding a wide range of hands. Flush draw or straight draw seems likely, but so is any pair really. Checking would be good to induce a bluff from a missed straight draw, but the flush draw just hit so you can't induce a bluff from that. Because of that I think I would value bet the river because this guy could easily have a worse J or T, or maybe an ace that he will call with (A6 or A4 paired and random other aces call a good amount b/c they're dumb). Also the pot is big and he might not bluff his missed straight draw but he will definitely call with any pair. If the flush draw didn't hit it would be closer to a check.

#3 10-11-2005, 12:30 AM

CO looks like a standard loose passive. Value bets are made for loose passives.

I will balue bet here.

On another note, BB's play was really wierd here.

#4 10-11-2005, 12:30 AM

Grunch...
I dont like the turn raise, what if he is 3 betting here? You could put yourself in a poor situation with this raise. On the river, im checking, and calling. The flush draw has completed, and you have mpmk. The bb is a moron and has folded his ugly str8 draw, but the co has called your raise, he has u beat by a possible 2 pr which is tough raising on this board, tp any kicker, and the fd. I think were beat here more than not, check behind call his bet.

cdl

anyone please feel free to correct me here...

flawless_victory · #5 10-11-2005, 12:30 AM

your play thus far is perfect... checkcall the river... things dont look good, but youre gonna get 11:1 if he bets so...

Lmn55d · #6 10-11-2005, 12:33 AM

What sort of worse hands do you think a BB with these stats donks the turn with?

#7 10-11-2005, 12:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't raise the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, the turn raise was rather impulsive. I didn't look at his stats at the time. I was 7 tabling (with the new party format) and wanted to get heads up with the donker. I felt I had him beat and also had a decent draw. Unfortunately, that didn't work out.

flawless_victory · #8 10-11-2005, 12:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What sort of worse hands do you think a BB with these stats donks the turn with?

[/ QUOTE ]im not gonna look at PT stats and guess what hands he bets the turn with.. i dont know... im guessin a pair or a draw... he didnt raise the flop when he could trap everybody for another bet, so a big hand is not likely at all... no effing way is he threebetting here... no way. look at the action and this guys relative pos...
if he has K4s, fine... ima get that free SD anyway with the turn raise... any of the cards that will make heros handm, are gonna scare the BB from betting again, so my way gets you three bets when you make str8/trips...
turn raise = yessir.

Lmn55d · #9 10-11-2005, 12:46 AM

Yea I guess I agree that he will not 3bet often and if you think his donking range is wide enough that you need to call a river bet raising for the free showdown seems good (although the loose guy behind you might thwart the free showdown). If you feel this guy's range is small enough that you can fold to a river bet unimproved, calling is better right?

flawless_victory · #10 10-11-2005, 01:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If you feel this guy's range is small enough that you can fold to a river bet unimproved, calling is better right?

[/ QUOTE ]sure ... if hes ultra passive fish whos only gonna bet a hand that beats QJ, then call... hope to see the the river and possibly, showdown, for one bet.