Calling down with second pair against an LAG

Spicymoose · #1 10-10-2005, 09:47 AM

Button is 25/14/5.2 after 100 hands. BB is 37/7/.7 after 50. I think normally I might bet into the button so he could raise me and drive out the BB, but in this situation:

1. I'm pretty likely to be behind anyway
2. BB is very passive, and I don't mind him calling, he doesn't have all that many outs
3. I wan't button to bluff as much as possible if he is behind

Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, 1 fold, BB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (9.33 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.16 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, BB calls, Hero calls.

River: (9.16 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, BB calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.16 BB

brazilio · #2 10-10-2005, 10:24 AM

I don't possibly see how overcalling the river is ok, if somebody disagrees I'd like to hear it.

witeknite · #3 10-10-2005, 10:46 AM

Do you not like the river overcall because of the K, or just in general?

WiteKnite

disjunction · #4 10-10-2005, 11:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Do you not like the river overcall because of the K, or just in general?

WiteKnite

[/ QUOTE ]

The king is really bad. I think it's close without it. The good news is that a loose passive BB will often have a pocket pair that he's holding onto for dear life. The bad news is that at the button is not an LAG preflop, so his 3-bet range here doesn't contain many hands you beat.

Spicymoose · #5 10-10-2005, 11:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The king is really bad. I think it's close without it. The good news is that a loose passive BB will often have a pocket pair that he's holding onto for dear life. The bad news is that at the button is not an LAG preflop, so his 3-bet range here doesn't contain many hands you beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that the king sucks. I think we are still beating TT and other pocket pairs that may have 3-bet us. He is super agro, so I could see him pushing to the river with a severe underpair. Maybe this isn't enough though, as he has a hell of a lot of hands that do beat us.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't possibly see how overcalling the river is ok, if somebody disagrees I'd like to hear it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it the overcalling or the calling you disagree with? Because I am really not worried at all about BB. Do you call if BB folds?

brazilio · #6 10-10-2005, 12:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Is it the overcalling or the calling you disagree with? Because I am really not worried at all about BB. Do you call if BB folds?

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is that the BB is loose, but it's an infrequent fish that'll call down with something you beat when that King hits. In addition, the guy isn't a maniac, he's just an overaggressive TAG that may be overly loose, but if he is it's close. He'd be just as hard pressed to value bet something you beat here 3-way. I think it's pretty neutral one way or the other to call it HU, but 3-way it verges on suck to me.

rory · #7 10-10-2005, 12:20 PM

Since when is 25/14 loose?

disjunction · #8 10-10-2005, 12:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I agree that the king sucks. I think we are still beating TT and other pocket pairs that may have 3-bet us. He is super agro, so I could see him pushing to the river with a severe underpair. Maybe this isn't enough though, as he has a hell of a lot of hands that do beat us.

[/ QUOTE ]

From the stats you posted, he's an LAG postflop but not preflop. My PFR is 4% higher than his, and I do not reraise a heck of a lot of hands that you beat. Maybe TT and 99 and JTs.

One other observation, from chat at a live poker table once, is that some LAGs are LAGs because they have only one thing on their mind, "don't let anyone chase", which makes them calm down against 2 opponents on the river.