a spot to buy the button with a nice hand! 89s

Maulik · #1 10-04-2005, 07:09 PM

I think I have a shot at buying position for the rest of the action here, thoughts on this? I'm less likely to make this move w/ larger hands in this spot as my hands are less likely to be clean.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP1 calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (8.40 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, Button calls, BB folds, MP1 calls.

Turn: (7.20 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets, Button calls, MP1 calls.

River: (10.20 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets, Button calls, MP1 folds.

Final Pot: 12.20 BB

Carmine · #2 10-04-2005, 07:22 PM

Is there a reason why you are isolating with a multiway hand here?

Chris Daddy Cool · #3 10-04-2005, 07:26 PM

yawn.

Maulik · #4 10-04-2005, 07:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is there a reason why you are isolating with a multiway hand here?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, because I used to play lots of NL, and buying the button is key for c-bets working.

W. Deranged · #5 10-04-2005, 07:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is there a reason why you are isolating with a multiway hand here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly!

Don't Do This!

Don't take the "isolation" idea too far: Isolate with hands that play well heads-up, namely pairs and hands with high cards in them. Suited connectors need many opponents (probably at least 4 for 89s) to be profitable, and raising here basically is equivalent to choosing to play the hand in the most unprofitable scenario.

The correct pre-flop play is to fold and it's not even remotely close.

Chris Daddy Cool · #6 10-04-2005, 07:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is there a reason why you are isolating with a multiway hand here?

[/ QUOTE ]

its a very situational situation. if you feel like you can gain position and isolate bad players you can control it can be very profitable. if you get called around in spots it sucks, but like you said you have a multiway hand and you also gain the value of deception in your hand.

i'm not saying i always raise here, in fact i usually don't. it's just one of those situations where you either do it or you don't and if you do, just shrug and say whatever because it's really not worth much mentioning.

Chris Daddy Cool · #7 10-04-2005, 07:31 PM

sorry buddy you're wrong. if done excessively in the wrong spots then of course its bad. but in a vacuum it hardly matters at all.

W. Deranged · #8 10-04-2005, 07:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm less likely to make this move w/ larger hands in this spot as my hands are less likely to be clean.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is very mixed up.

"Cleanliness" really applies best to pair outs; if you're raising to clean up your hand, you are implying that you are intending to win often by making just one pair.

You are playing a hand that really needs to make a huge hand to win: two pair, or more likely a straight or flush. If you make any of those hands, you are going to win the pot the vast majority of the time. So raising to "clean up" your hand makes very little sense.

You also need to really start to break down some of the NL tendencies that you have built up. Since your bets are limited, you cannot usually make plays on early street that rely heavily on your ability to make opponents fold on later streets.

W. Deranged · #9 10-04-2005, 07:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
sorry buddy you're wrong. if done excessively in the wrong spots then of course its bad. but in a vacuum it hardly matters at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

CDC... I'd really like to hear more on how this sort of play can be profitable consistently. You obviously understand this much better than I do, but I have a very hard time why it is a good idea to be raising to in order to get heads-up with 9 high. The greatest value in 98s comes from its ability to drag large pots against multiple opponents by making a big hand. This raise strikes me as the sort of fishy, laggish play that I long ago taught myself to avoid.

I'm really very interested by your response because it suggests to me I'm missing something here. I realize you say it's sort of a "meh" situation, but to me it seems so obviously to be wrong that to say it is "meh" and not wrong is a big jump.

Thanks,
Will