Bad Push? please advise

#1 09-21-2005, 11:06 PM

Moved to table recently, no real read on table.

Bad play pre-flop and on push I believe. Thanks in advance.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (9 handed) converter

Button (t6522)
SB (t3210)
BB (t16915)
UTG (t840)
UTG+1 (t6765)
MP1 (t4450)
MP2 (t12012)
MP3 (t3800)
Hero (t5098)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 calls t200, 1 fold, Hero calls t200, 2 folds, BB checks.

Flop: (t700) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (t700) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets t800, MP2 calls t800, Hero raises to t4898, BB folds, MP2 calls t4098.

River: (t11296) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: t11296

pfkaok · #2 09-21-2005, 11:13 PM

bad call pf, very bad check on flop, ok push.

#3 09-21-2005, 11:14 PM

to add:
Caller had 5s,7s

#4 09-21-2005, 11:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
to add:
Caller had 5s,7s

[/ QUOTE ]

interesting deck.

pfkaok · #5 09-21-2005, 11:21 PM

yeah, i def. call for a deck change after seeing that.

#6 09-21-2005, 11:27 PM

correction: he had 6s,9s

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (9 handed) converter

Button (t6522)
SB (t3210)
BB (t16915)
UTG (t840)
UTG+1 (t6765)
MP1 (t4450)
MP2 (t12012)
MP3 (t3800)
Hero (t5098)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 calls t200, 1 fold, Hero calls t200, 2 folds, BB checks.

Flop: (t700) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (t700) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets t800, MP2 calls t800, Hero raises to t4898, BB folds, MP2 calls t4098.

River: (t11296) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)[/color

Final Pot: t11296
Results in white below: 
MP2 has 6s 9s (flush, ace high).
Hero has Ad Qs (two pair, aces and sevens).
Outcome: MP2 wins t11296. [/color

pfkaok · #7 09-22-2005, 12:38 AM

again... raise PF. with a limper it has to be a healthy raise. one that he might fold to. once you've done that, if he's still in there with a flush, you push when he checks it to you b/c the pot has gotten big, and when he flips up the flush, just outdraw him.

flyingmoose · #8 09-22-2005, 07:44 AM

Any reason why you didn't raise preflop?

I don't mind the push at all once you got there, but I'm not fond of your previous two actions (call/check). I'd like to change them to bet/bet

subzero · #9 09-22-2005, 08:20 AM

Yes, raise preflop: Hero makes it 800, BB calls and MP2 (big stack) calls closing the action. Probably wouldn't have changed much in this case.

I don't like the turn push. The board paired, there's three to a flush, both opponents like the board, and all you have is top pair. You have a flush draw, but it might not be to the nuts (the board is paired too). I would rather lead the flop for 400 and try to get to showdown cheaply (control the pot).

You were in decent shape before the hand. I think there are better spots to get all your money in the middle.

mayesie · #10 09-22-2005, 09:42 PM

Is there a reason for not raising pre-flop w/ your hand in the CO (just asking)? Also, is there a reason for not betting the flop (as scary as it looks)?

Your push on the turn was careless for a number of reasons:

1) You didn't define you hand on the flop by betting. You have no idea if someone already has a made flush (a set on the flop is unlikely because the board would've forced a bet). This pot was unraised, so your opponents could be sitting there w/ almost anything.

2) Any decent player is going to think there's a pretty good chance you're on a semi-bluff. Why would a made hand (such as a flush) raise 2X the pot? This play is only justified if you have (2) low spades & want to prevent a re-draw.

3) You didn't leave yourself a way out of the hand in the event that someone was trapping.

IMO, the right play is to raise pre-flop, then bet the flop. I'd then have a better idea where my opponent(s) are, and will be able to make better decisions on the turn and/or river.