Mutilated QJs

Cumulonimbus · #1 09-21-2005, 07:43 PM

I don't know what the hell I was doing here. MP3 is new to the table. BB is LAG. SB is new. I need comments on every street.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Nimbus is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Nimbus calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB raises, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Nimbus calls, SB calls.

Flop: (10 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, BB calls, MP2 folds, MP3 raises, Nimbus calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (9 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP3 bets, Nimbus calls, SB folds, BB folds.

River: (11 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP3 checks, Nimbus checks.

Final Pot: 11 BB

W. Deranged · #2 09-21-2005, 07:51 PM

1. I like a raise here pre-flop for value and possible positional advantages, though I think a call is fine and it's not as obvious a raise as it might be if there were one more limper in front of you.

2. Raise the flop. You have a huge draw here, and I'm totally willing to put in 3 or 4 bets on this flop. You have a likely large equity edge, even if up against a K, and being able to take a free card on the turn is nice.

3. Turn plays itself as played, though note that if given the option it's probably best to take a free card here rather than continuing to be into a field that size. Raising here is probably not good as very, very often you are up against a strong hand which will possibly three-bet. Slowplays could wake up now and pop you.

4. I wonder if this might be an opportunity to run a pure bluff on the river. Villain's check is very, very odd, actually. It could well indicate a missed flush draw, and betting to encourage an A-high missed draw to fold seems possible. Though this would be very read dependent.

Yerma · #3 09-21-2005, 07:57 PM

You're not going to get a free card very often against a King because you went multiple bets on the flop. Also, there is likely no equity edge on the flop, and you're sometimes drawing to just your straight flush outs. This is the wrong time to try to cap up the flop.

I think the hand played out fine.

Nick C · #4 09-21-2005, 08:03 PM

The flop cold-call seems all right to me. With your big draw, a raise could be for value against if just two players stay in, but if a cold-call will bring even more people along, that could be for better value.

If the board weren't paired, I'd think about 3-betting a little more -- partly because of free-card considerations. But the paired board cuts into your equity and also might make your 3-bet scarier. (And I'm not certain 3-betting would be best even if the K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] were a rag instead. For instance, on the turn, with an OESFD and no pair on the board, you'd be approximately breaking even on all turn bets that went in, versus two opponents. So a free turn card isn't as valuable here as it sometimes is. And, also, once there's a bet and a raise on the flop, I don't think you're winning the hand without a showdown very often.)

The turn call looks good to me.

On the river, betting to try to drive MP3 off of an A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] flush draw or even another QJ is tempting. How often will one of those hands be what MP3 has, and when that is what he has, how often will a bet get him to fold? I'm not sure, partly because I don't put my first actual bet in on the river as often as I probably should.

Anyway, there's a good chance I would check behind, like you did, as save a bet versus MP3's QT or AT or K8 or 88 or whatever. But if I ended up losing to A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], I would wonder if a bet would have worked. In a pot of this size, there certainly is a lot of value to getting a better hand to fold.

Cumulonimbus · #5 09-21-2005, 08:37 PM

Phew - okay it's good to know my reasoning wasn't that bad; but I didn't even think about bluffing the river until after I checked it. I just gave up when my card didn't hit. You wouldn't imagine my disapointment when he won with A4s.