Laying down good hands

I'm having trouble laying down good hands, I usually know I'm beat, but I keep check calling just to see if I'm beat for sure, which I usually am. I know check calling is something that bad players do, and I need help getting out of it. Some examples of hands I couldn't lay down:

KK, flop is Q6J rainbow, someone comes out betting and I'm pretty sure they just made something big. Turn and River bring nothing, and my opponent keeps betting while I just call. They turn over QJ for 2 pair.

A9, flop is 952, 2 suited. Opponent comes out betting, no flush possible by river, straight possible with low cards though. No overcards come, and my opponent turns over 99 for three nines.

Hands like these are pretty typical of the ones I can't lay down. I have a good holding, but there are a few hands that can beat me. My opponent comes out strong, and I'm pretty sure I'm beat, but I just can't lay it down. Does anyone have any tips to deal with this?

[4_2_it]

It is hard to give you feedback without the entire hand history. On your KK hand, did you raise pre-flop? How much? Was QJ in one of the blinds and you let them limp? It is hard to tell if this is poor play on your part or just a bad beat that good aggressive players will take from time to time.

On your A9 hand, I normally fold that pre-flop unless I'm in the blinds or trying to steal. You got the perfect flop for that holding and still lost, but if you called a pre-flop raise with A9, then I would say that you badly misplayed the hand.

To answer your original question, I would question how 'good' these hands really are. If I have KK and someone calls a healthy pre-flp raise and raises my flop bet when under cards hit, I am going to slow down and possibly fold if a push comes.

In the games I play (usually $100NL), people don't normally bluff large amounts frequently enough to make it worth paying all the players with real hands off.

Unless you have solid read on your opponent, frequently trying to call out a bluff is rarely profitable.

[beekeeper]

Without knowing your blind structure relative to your starting stack, or how many players are at the table, I would say this is very relative to who is doing the betting and what you know about him/her. Also, if you have a big hand, are you betting/raising enough preflop and on the flop to get your opponents to define their hands?

If you've observed your opponent enough to know how they play their pocket pairs, esp. their small to medium pp, that should help you feel a little better about either laying down or raising.

Someone on a previous thread repeated Harrington's advice that it's better to raise or fold than to call, which was good for me to hear again. I also took to heart another piece of advice on 2+2 for a poster who had suffered some bad beats: "focus on how you do, not how you feel."

I tend to call more after I've suffered a series of defeats. Think about the context within which you're making your calls and see if that helps you make adjustments.

Sorry, I guess I should have explained a little more. I play limit, not NL. I just put those hands as examples, they aren't really that important. My point is that I am like 75% sure I'm beat, but I have trouble laying my hand down.

What I've noticed in limit, is that you're gonna have winning and losing sessions. The goal is to maximize your winning hands and minimize the loss on your losing hands. Minimizing my losses on my losing sessions is the biggest thing I need work on right now.

[Pov]

Check out this thread currently in progress about crying calls. I think it may have some applicable information.

I would think that, with the situations you mentioned, you would actually save money by playing more aggressively early.

The KK, for example - you should be raising on the flop - if he comes back at you with a re-raise, then you should know that he probably has at least 2 pair and you can decide from there.

The A9 scenario is tougher - but, again, if you bet and raise on the flop and he keeps re-raising, then you know you are likely beat and can throw the hand away.

In both these cases, it may cost you an extra bet or two on the flop, but it will save you the two bets on the turn and river - which are big bets, equal to 4 small bets.

These seem like classic examples of passive play leading to larger losses.

[4_2_it]

Sorry, didn't realize you were talking about limit. Hank's advice is spot on.

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, didn't realize you were talking about limit. Hank's advice is spot on.

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WOO HOO!! Its good to know that I am actually able to apply some of what I am learning.

btw - love XTC

Thanks Hank, that's good advice. Do you recommend laying my hand down after I'm reraised, or should I take a card and see if I improve?

[GFresh]

I think a lot depends on your reads on your opponents/pot size. I think that a lot of people would be re-raising you after the flop with AQ in the first example which you are a huge favorite against. If the pot was small, I'd probably consider letting it go but if it was already raised preflop and a good sized pot was building, I'd check/call it down too. Your hand is good more often than not I think. Honestly, both these examples happen pretty rarely and I'd probably call them both down because you have strong hands in both examples and you'll need to make up a lot of bets if the pot was large.