Calling with NFD + OC on paired raised flop.

[Daliman]

OK, playing 10-20, in a recent hand, I limped mid postion behind one weak/abc player with A2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], one more limper came, as did the SB, and the BB makes it 50 to go. NO read on BB, but this play often seems to me to be either a BPP or low to middle suited connectors. All call but the SB, 4 see the flop, which comes:

3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

BB bets out 250, and I'm lending credence to BPP, but not QQ.

Is calling a bad line here, figuring him for KK? Obviously, a raise is to be considered, but if he DOES have the KK or even the unlikely AA, is can't imagine he's folding very often. I think I've been getting in trouble lately dedicating a lot of chips on the flop with 12+ outs and up and a friend I showed the hand to called it a clear, easy fold, (he's tight, but a significant winner in the game.)

Thoughts?

[captZEEbo1]

Peeling one street isn't awful, but there's some mad reverse implied odds of the K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] hits and he makes a boat (if you actually put him on AA or KK, which I think it unlikely). Raising here has little value imo.

[PGarlic]

I think this is something you should've asked yourself preflop. When you called the raise, what were your plans for the hand? Calling with the plan to play a draw agressively is fine if you think the BB is a player who can drop an overpair.

If you thought you were gonna have to flop big in order to continue with the hand then I think this is a fold preflop.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
Peeling one street isn't awful, but there's some mad reverse implied odds of the K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] hits and he makes a boat (if you actually put him on AA or KK, which I think it unlikely). Raising here has little value imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Highly unlikely the Ad will hit. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Peeling one street isn't awful, but there's some mad reverse implied odds of the K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] hits and he makes a boat (if you actually put him on AA or KK, which I think it unlikely). Raising here has little value imo.

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Highly unlikely the Ad will hit. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
Depends if it's Party or StarsIsRigged.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is something you should've asked yourself preflop. When you called the raise, what were your plans for the hand? Calling with the plan to play a draw agressively is fine if you think the BB is a player who can drop an overpair.

If you thought you were gonna have to flop big in order to continue with the hand then I think this is a fold preflop.

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Well, my initial thought was that it was a suited connectors "build me a pot in case I flop big" raise, as I see that alot lately, but usually those are specifically minraises, but I DID keep in mind the possiblilty of a BPP, albiet an exceptionally poorly played one.

I guess my plans were to see what the flop brought, and make a decision from there whether or not my hand still held any value based on both the flop and my opponents actions.

With regards to flopping big, that's always nice, but I never count on that, and I'm not shy about getting chips in the pot if I think I can make someone fold, but when you get a downswing, you start questioning everything, and I was just wondering if calling/playing flop on in situations such as this tend to be -EV overall.

[Voltron87]

stack sizes are relevant, but i'll assume everyone has 2kish

i think calling on the flop is very thin valuewise without a read.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
stack sizes are relevant, but i'll assume everyone has 2kish

i think calling on the flop is very thin valuewise without a read.

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well, it was 2600 from the raiser, 800, 2300 and me at ~1900.

[hit_the_set]

Isnt it a bad idea(or -EV) to chase the flush on a paired board? Calling does not make such sense. Either you try push him off the hand or fold.