The effects of burning a flop card

[DavidC]

Hey guys.

I'd recently played in a game where the top card was burnt directly after the deal instead of directly before the flop, and I've done a little stoving to determine the exact effects of this, if the first card on the flop is marked.

---

Imagine a tourney where there's 7 players left. It's folded to tighty in MP2 who goes all in for 8x blinds. It's folded to you in the BB.

You put him on AA-99,AK-AQ, AJs, KQs. (Keep in mind I suck at tourneys, so this may not be accurate, but we'll use it for the purpose of detremining our equity).

You have JTs.

Your equity is therefore 33%.

If you can see the first card to hit the flop, and it's a jack, then now your equity becomes 55.7%.

So... lesson: always make sure that the burn card stays on top of the deck until JUST before teh flop comes out.

I know you guys play live poker sometimes, so I figured I'd let you know how big that difference is.

I'm willing to bet that if I could see the top card of the flop every time, I could beat Sklansky heads-up, no problem (as long as they couldn't see it).

Needless to say, I'm going to insist that the cards are burnt properly if I ever attend this game again. It was a $20 SNG with a 7x,2x,0,0,0... payout.

--Dave.

[shant]

So you're trying to justify that custom title of yours?

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
So you're trying to justify that custom title of yours?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe a little. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Protecting my friends in the process, though (both at the live games I play and on the forum).

[Rev. Good Will]

I would actually complain, the burn is made so that in the case of a marked deck so any cheaters wouldn't see what the next card would be dealt.

Doing the burn right after the deal is pointless, might as well skip the burn altogether if they were doing it that way.

[imported_The Vibesman]

[ QUOTE ]
I would actually complain, the burn is made so that in the case of a marked deck so any cheaters wouldn't see what the next card would be dealt.

Doing the burn right after the deal is pointless, might as well skip the burn altogether if they were doing it that way.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this. David is right, this misses the point of burning the card entirely.

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm willing to bet that if I could see the top card of the flop every time, I could beat Sklansky heads-up, no problem (as long as they couldn't see it).


[/ QUOTE ]

I think you overestimate the edge this would give you [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[bozlax]

Methinks only online poker is rigged, aye! I be outraged, and penning a letter to my Congressman, aye!

Aaarrrrrgggggghhhhhh!

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm willing to bet that if I could see the top card of the flop every time, I could beat Sklansky heads-up, no problem (as long as they couldn't see it).


[/ QUOTE ]

I think you overestimate the edge this would give you [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

If we ever get together live some time (in vegas / whatever), we'll test this out. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Eeegah]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm willing to bet that if I could see the top card of the flop every time, I could beat Sklansky heads-up, no problem (as long as they couldn't see it).


[/ QUOTE ]

I think you overestimate the edge this would give you [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Holding KK and seeing that the first card is an A? Holding, say, Q7s and the first card is one of your suit? Holding 22 on the button and the first card is a 2? I think it'd give quite a big edge, no?

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm willing to bet that if I could see the top card of the flop every time, I could beat Sklansky heads-up, no problem (as long as they couldn't see it).


[/ QUOTE ]

I think you overestimate the edge this would give you [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Holding KK and seeing that the first card is an A? Holding, say, Q7s and the first card is one of your suit? Holding 22 on the button and the first card is a 2? I think it'd give quite a big edge, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well... let's put it this way, in those circumstances, yes, but they're not very often, right?

I mean, you hit a set on the first card of the flop something like 1/25th of the time, right?

You'd have to learn weird odds, like what the chance is of hitting a set on one of the next two cards on a flop if you miss the first card, etc. Once you did, though, you'd have a good time. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]