All-In Pot Odds On The Flop

[Degen]

This topic was brushed upon in another thread and wanted to start a new one to get peoples opinions specifically on this matter:

If there has been heavy PF action and you are left semi-shortstacked going into the flop, at what point should you be considering yourself pot commited to call any and all bets on the flop? When you are getting what odds?

Say you have 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in the BB with t700 before the hand starts, you post BB of t400 and have t300 behind (5 players left with semi-even stacks in a PP $100+9). The SB completes and you see a flop of A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

SB bets t400 and you can call for your last t300 to win t1100 if you get there (where exactly, i don't know...but 'there').

Is this a situation where you cannot fold, getting 11:3?



If I understood some very good players properly in this other thread, there are situations like these when you are supposed to call with any two cards.


Discuss.

[tigerite]

Just push preflop in that situation, then you don't have to worry. Especially as the SB will fold sometimes (yes, I've seen it happen!)

[raptor517]

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Just push preflop in that situation, then you don't have to worry. Especially as the SB will fold sometimes (yes, I've seen it happen!)

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ok this is different than that AQ hand. the sb wont actually fold here very often. if he does, its along the lines of 1 in 30985029385092835235. holla

[Scuba Chuck]

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Just push preflop in that situation, then you don't have to worry. Especially as the SB will fold sometimes (yes, I've seen it happen!)

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ok this is different than that AQ hand. the sb wont actually fold here very often. if he does, its along the lines of 1 in 30985029385092835235. holla

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Raptor, while I agree with your statement, your response insinuates that you think pushing preflop is a mistake. If you don't intend to push in preflop, then I think you are then insinuating that you can fold on this flop.

[EnderFFX]

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Just push preflop in that situation, then you don't have to worry. Especially as the SB will fold sometimes (yes, I've seen it happen!)

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ok this is different than that AQ hand. the sb wont actually fold here very often. if he does, its along the lines of 1 in 30985029385092835235. holla

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Come to the 20's raptor it's more like 1 in 20, holla.

[raptor517]

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Just push preflop in that situation, then you don't have to worry. Especially as the SB will fold sometimes (yes, I've seen it happen!)

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ok this is different than that AQ hand. the sb wont actually fold here very often. if he does, its along the lines of 1 in 30985029385092835235. holla

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Raptor, while I agree with your statement, your response insinuates that you think pushing preflop is a mistake. If you don't intend to push in preflop, then I think you are then insinuating that you can fold on this flop.

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actually, my response insinuates nothing, and if anything, it insinuates i push. do you see why? ok ill break it down. i said that its different than the AQ hand. that means, theres a big difference somewhere. that big difference is in the 1 in 230582093580923598235 part. with the AQ hand, i think its much closer to 1/4, making a push correct boyond a shadow of a doubt. however, again, ill reiterate, that if you know hes calling, its incorrect to push pf. /endhijack.

ok, im an idiot, and dont really wanna delete what i just wrote because i need to pound it in, so leave that for the other thread. in response to this post, with the 79 hand, i dont like pushing pf. you in no way are taking the pot there. yes, you get it all in on the flop, no matter how much it sucks, he might have 87 and u have nuts. also, if he even thinks about checking, you have a great way to be back at 1100 chips by firing the flop. anyways, just some food for thought. holla

[Scuba Chuck]

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actually, my response insinuates nothing, and if anything, it insinuates i push. do you see why? ok ill break it down. i said that its different than the AQ hand. that means, theres a big difference somewhere. that big difference is in the 1 in 230582093580923598235 part. with the AQ hand, i think its much closer to 1/4, making a push correct boyond a shadow of a doubt. however, again, ill reiterate, that if you know hes calling, its incorrect to push pf. /endhijack.

ok, im an idiot, and dont really wanna delete what i just wrote because i need to pound it in, so leave that for the other thread. in response to this post, with the 79 hand, i dont like pushing pf. you in no way are taking the pot there. yes, you get it all in on the flop, no matter how much it sucks, he might have 87 and u have nuts. also, if he even thinks about checking, you have a great way to be back at 1100 chips by firing the flop. anyways, just some food for thought. holla

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OK, I agree with this second statement, in that I would also check pf, and jam it in on the flop, hoping it gets HU. But in this situation, SB leads, and there's a good chance that the other stack could call anyway.

In this situation, IMO, calling postflop is not more correct than folding and hoping to survive on life support. This situation only makes you think that pushing preflop would have been better.

[raptor517]

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actually, my response insinuates nothing, and if anything, it insinuates i push. do you see why? ok ill break it down. i said that its different than the AQ hand. that means, theres a big difference somewhere. that big difference is in the 1 in 230582093580923598235 part. with the AQ hand, i think its much closer to 1/4, making a push correct boyond a shadow of a doubt. however, again, ill reiterate, that if you know hes calling, its incorrect to push pf. /endhijack.

ok, im an idiot, and dont really wanna delete what i just wrote because i need to pound it in, so leave that for the other thread. in response to this post, with the 79 hand, i dont like pushing pf. you in no way are taking the pot there. yes, you get it all in on the flop, no matter how much it sucks, he might have 87 and u have nuts. also, if he even thinks about checking, you have a great way to be back at 1100 chips by firing the flop. anyways, just some food for thought. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, I agree with this second statement, in that I would also check pf, and jam it in on the flop, hoping it gets HU. But in this situation, SB leads, and there's a good chance that the other stack could call anyway.

In this situation, IMO, calling postflop is not more correct than folding and hoping to survive on life support. This situation only makes you think that pushing preflop would have been better.

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its already heads up far as i can tell.. and there is no one else who would call.. holla

[Scuba Chuck]

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actually, my response insinuates nothing, and if anything, it insinuates i push. do you see why? ok ill break it down. i said that its different than the AQ hand. that means, theres a big difference somewhere. that big difference is in the 1 in 230582093580923598235 part. with the AQ hand, i think its much closer to 1/4, making a push correct boyond a shadow of a doubt. however, again, ill reiterate, that if you know hes calling, its incorrect to push pf. /endhijack.

ok, im an idiot, and dont really wanna delete what i just wrote because i need to pound it in, so leave that for the other thread. in response to this post, with the 79 hand, i dont like pushing pf. you in no way are taking the pot there. yes, you get it all in on the flop, no matter how much it sucks, he might have 87 and u have nuts. also, if he even thinks about checking, you have a great way to be back at 1100 chips by firing the flop. anyways, just some food for thought. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, I agree with this second statement, in that I would also check pf, and jam it in on the flop, hoping it gets HU. But in this situation, SB leads, and there's a good chance that the other stack could call anyway.

In this situation, IMO, calling postflop is not more correct than folding and hoping to survive on life support. This situation only makes you think that pushing preflop would have been better.

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its already heads up far as i can tell.. and there is no one else who would call.. holla

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My bad. Misread OP. OK, I see no benefit to checking preflop. You don't have FE, you don't have position, you got a squat hand. Give yourself the best odds at the best time. The only reason not to push pf, is that you are willing to fold if you completely whiff on the flop.

[raptor517]

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actually, my response insinuates nothing, and if anything, it insinuates i push. do you see why? ok ill break it down. i said that its different than the AQ hand. that means, theres a big difference somewhere. that big difference is in the 1 in 230582093580923598235 part. with the AQ hand, i think its much closer to 1/4, making a push correct boyond a shadow of a doubt. however, again, ill reiterate, that if you know hes calling, its incorrect to push pf. /endhijack.

ok, im an idiot, and dont really wanna delete what i just wrote because i need to pound it in, so leave that for the other thread. in response to this post, with the 79 hand, i dont like pushing pf. you in no way are taking the pot there. yes, you get it all in on the flop, no matter how much it sucks, he might have 87 and u have nuts. also, if he even thinks about checking, you have a great way to be back at 1100 chips by firing the flop. anyways, just some food for thought. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, I agree with this second statement, in that I would also check pf, and jam it in on the flop, hoping it gets HU. But in this situation, SB leads, and there's a good chance that the other stack could call anyway.

In this situation, IMO, calling postflop is not more correct than folding and hoping to survive on life support. This situation only makes you think that pushing preflop would have been better.

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its already heads up far as i can tell.. and there is no one else who would call.. holla

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My bad. Misread OP. OK, I see no benefit to checking preflop. You don't have FE, you don't have position, you got a squat hand. Give yourself the best odds at the best time. The only reason not to push pf, is that you are willing to fold if you completely whiff on the flop.

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i mean, i cant even see how you can say you dont have any fold equity, but say to push preflop. that is just ludicrous. you DO have plenty of fold equity on the flop if its checked to you, and hes calling a shove pf either way. this is a no brainer check/call flop bet/shove flop check. its not even really debateable. holla