1/2 live NL

[meleader2]

i'm UTG preflop looking at K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. i open for 15$ preflop. folds to SB who calls, BB folds.

my stack ~100$
villain ~20$ after 15$ preflop call. villain is a bad player.

flop (30$ pot after 3$ rake)

A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

(EDITED) villain checks. what do you do.

[awarunn]

I suggest making some kind of bet here. I really can't see myself getting rid of this hand after he checks the flop. Imagine the options, If you bet half the pot and he pushes it's an easy call. If you check behind, I imagine him pushing with a number of hands that you beat i.e. middle pocket pairs, which gives you more reason to call. Maybe check calling is the best move here even though you're very likely to get his whole stack in by the river anyway. I don't think putting him all in on the flop is a bad move either. I don't think there are many ways to misplay this hand.

after the pre-flop action and pot size, with the given information on the player.. i would say you are getting the right odds to put him in right on the flop. you also have to remember bad players giving ace-rag way too much credit. you're better off puting him in now, rather than later with the chance of him mucking his cards without reguard to the pot size. you cant muck kings every time an ace flops.. you'll cost yourself too many pots.

[AllIn3High]

Put him all-in and live with the results. If he has you beat so be it, but you can't let him catch up for free if he's behind. Since he's bad he'll probably call with a lot of hands you beat (flush draws, Jx, other silly stuff), he probably didnt' call off most of his stack to fold the flop.

[meleader2]

i bet 10 he pushed i called. no help from turn/river MHING...he flipped up AJo.

now i'm not being results oriented here, but before i called i exclaimed "if you called pre with a baby ace nice job, i obviously can't fold here." with as much sarcasm as i could...

my read was correct, and had just Jxx flopped i woulda taken him out...but given my read was correct is it ever correct to just check fold it through KNOWING he has that ace just to save 20$????

(this is the only mistake i made all night, i left way up that night which is why i'm giving this so much deliberation.)

[elus2]

his range of hands is wider than Ax. obviously if his range was only Ax then you check fold but I don't know anyone good enough to narrow a shortstack opponent's hand range that well after 1 street of play.

next time i suggest you stray away from the sarcasm. look up, smile, say nh and ask him to buy you a drink. when you create an environment which makes bad players uncomfortable they may choose to just get up and leave.

It's appropriate if you're sure you're a genius when it comes to reading people but in that case you'd probably be playing higher limits. A short stacked guy got lucky on you and there's not much more to it.

I think you should have bet $20 right away. My thought process:

A short stacked player in a 1/2 game calls a $15 bet with at least AK, AQ, AJ, A10, KK, QQ, JJ, 1010, 99, 88, 77 and J10. So 50% of the time you've got the best hand and 50% of the time you don't. There's a little more than $30 in the pot. To invest another $20 you need better than a 29% percent chance of winning by the end of the hand. You've got that already based on the range of possible hands, and then factor in the chance of a backdoor flush or of hitting a K. You HAVE to invest that $20, so do it first so you have some fold equity against a hand like A10 or AQ.

[elus2]

[ QUOTE ]
A short stacked player in a 1/2 game calls a $15 bet with at least AK, AQ, AJ, A10, KK, QQ, JJ, 1010, 99, 88, 77 and J10. So 50% of the time you've got the best hand and 50% of the time you don't. There's a little more than $30 in the pot. To invest another $20 you need better than a 29% percent chance of winning by the end of the hand. You've got that already based on the range of possible hands, and then factor in the chance of a backdoor flush or of hitting a K. You HAVE to invest that $20, so do it first so you have some fold equity against a hand like A10 or AQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

shortstack wasn't the only player left to act and 7.5xbb raise has usually done me fine as well in live 1/2nl. why does fold equity factor into this equation. you have the second best hand preflop and the point is to force your opponents into making a mistake by not folding correctly. i'd rather have Ax call 15 dollars preflop than folding to a 20 dollar raise.