How would you play this hand?

Ribbo · #1 09-02-2005, 09:12 PM

Not just my hand but each of the 4 hands at the showdown....

http://www.pokerhand.org/index.php?p...mp;hand=118167

DPCondit · #2 09-02-2005, 11:27 PM

I would have played your hand the way you did. The queens had no business going past the flop. The A336 picked up nut low and a 2-6 straight draw, but still pretty questionable with only 4 outs for high (fives). Sure, a 3 makes him a set, if he can believe they're not already dead, but it could also make someone a low straight and it kills his nut low. I don't like his all in bet at all, he would be better off just folding. Still, you could argue, holding A33, that your opponents are much less likely to be chopping the low with you (because you have two of the 3s), so it wasn't totally nuts.

The A389 with a low and only 4 outs for high pretty questionable as well, should have just folded to your flop bet.

The queens were ridiculous, and the other hands had only marginally better than a naked low hand, which are death hands in pot limit against pot sized raises. You had two pair to go with your low, which gives you a lot more than they had, plus 4 outs to a full house, and 4 outs to a wheel (of course the wheel would have made someone a 2-6 straight that they shouldn't have even been drawing for at that point). Of course, an ace or a three counterfeits your low, but it also gives you a better high hand, and you still have a 7-4 low. If it's an ace, you lose to A336 on the low. You probably gotta figure the 3s are at least close to dead, and the aces as well.

I can understand the A336, because of holding two of the 3s (not saying I agree with his action, especially given the betting), but everybody else way overplayed their hands, besides you.

emptyshell · #3 09-03-2005, 12:38 AM

Standard

Ribbo · #4 09-03-2005, 12:57 AM

The point I was hoping that would be made that you did quite well is that nobody ever folds low. Ever. Yet sometimes you just can't fold your hand. The A336 is stuck, simply because it's a good flop. Plus he could well be ahead heads up. After all, until the 4 hit the turn he was beating my pair of deuces and should a different low card hit, it would not be unexpected for me to again bet my low quite hard into his higher 1 pair. The flush draw should just stop being stupid. But people just NEVER EVER fold flush draws. "OMG IT'S A FLUSH DRAW I CAN'T LOSE"

Most famously I was playing at the Gutshot club in London, there is one asian who gets particularily excited upon the prospects of a flush. One day during the cash games the whole table we were playing at collapsed into sniggers (if that's possible) as from across the other end of the room he jumped up gesticulating in his high pitched voice "I'M FLUSHING, I'M FLUSHING". He had no pair and a flush draw in a holdem game and had just shoved the flop and got called. He lost.

The completely bizarre thing about this game is as follows. In pot limit holdem. If I bet the pot and you are holding a flush draw, you fold. Now in omaha, where you have even less outs for your flush draw because pairing the board is really bad, you shove back with your flush draw. It makes no sense. A flush draw or just a low, IS NOT THE NUTS. I bet the pot not thinking my 2 pair was good for high, but to make a better high fold so i get heads up with A3xx. Little did I know I was actually good for both and my opponents were just idiots.
but I digress, the point i'm trying to make is. Don't be that excitable Asian guy, and from time to time find excuses to fold.

Ribbo · #5 09-03-2005, 01:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Standard

[/ QUOTE ]
It's not though is it. If you think 3 people flopping the same low draw and none of them folding it is standard, then you don't understand how to play omaha/8.

#6 09-03-2005, 01:59 AM

What's your line of thinking when you bet out at the flop?

Ribbo · #7 09-03-2005, 02:17 AM

It's a blocking bet, the 2 can't be a good card usually for the preflop raiser and ideally I want everyone to call. I have a ton of value with my hand multiway, plus the cheeky deuce really helps out as high hands go. Any pair is often a monster when both players have nut low. When the turn hits, i'm hoping people with high realise they are now getting freerolled. My low is going to be better than any other low. I cant see anyone else with A3 having a better 2 pair. I sure didn't expect everyone to call and for my hand to be good. Expected a quarter.

#8 09-03-2005, 02:42 AM

Thanks. I like hearing the thinking behind decisions. Couple more things if you don't mind.

So what happens if it's potted back to you on the flop after your blocking bet--easy fold? And what would be your line if the turn brought some other non-pairing low card for you?

Ribbo · #9 09-03-2005, 03:21 AM

"It depends"
If I bet, 3 people call, then someone pots, they have a real strong hand. If someone raises from the button heads up, then no I don't fold, I might just pop em back [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

emptyshell · #10 09-03-2005, 04:58 AM

I was refering to your play, although I guess I would lean towards potting it on the flop. You have a pair and a really good low draw. If someone repots it, you can put them on a high hand that you are unlikely to catch up to and fold. I'm not sure what it means if someone raises the small bet.