#1
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The kind of calls you need to make at the $215s....
I'm just posting this because I believe a lot of people on this forum would feel this is an automatic fold in TEPop's spot (NickB from 2+2), whereas it's actually a very good call in this situation.. ***** Hand History for Game -2131683186 ***** 200/400 TOURNEYTEXASHTGAMETABLE (NL) (TOURNAMENT 12855742) - MON JUN 06 03:21:14 EDT 2005 Table Table 11087 (Real Money) -- Seat 8 is the button Total number of players : 8 Seat 1: swiftdeal (1095) Seat 2: luna00 (1140) Seat 3: yozzy (1045) Seat 4: The_Robot (1030) Seat 5: dandydan144 (1290) Seat 8: curtainz (1005) Seat 9: phukyoo (1970) Seat 10: TEPop84 (1425) phukyoo posts small blind (100) TEPop84 posts big blind (200) ** Dealing down cards ** Dealt to curtainz [ Js, Ts ] swiftdeal folds. luna00 folds. yozzy folds. The_Robot folds. dandydan144 folds. curtainz raises (1005) to 1005 curtainz is all-In. phukyoo folds. TEPop84 calls (805) Creating Main Pot with $2110 with curtainz ** Dealing Flop ** : [ 2d, 9h, Qd ] ** Dealing Turn ** : [ 4h ] ** Dealing River ** : [ 6c ] ** Summary ** Main Pot: 2110 | Board: [ 2d 9h Qd 4h 6c ] swiftdeal balance 1095, didn't bet (folded) luna00 balance 1140, didn't bet (folded) yozzy balance 1045, didn't bet (folded) The_Robot balance 1030, didn't bet (folded) dandydan144 balance 1290, didn't bet (folded) curtainz balance 0, lost 1005 [ Js Ts ] [ high card queen -- Qd,Js,Ts,9h,6c ] phukyoo balance 1870, lost 100 (folded) TEPop84 balance 2530, bet 1005, collected 2110, net +1105 [ Ac 2h ] [ a pair of twos -- Ac,Qd,9h,2h,2d ] |
#2
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Re: The kind of calls you need to make at the $215s....
good post? i'd like it better if you posted say, some of the icm numbers that make this call good [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
plugging in any reasonably wide range of hands for this noob curtainz shows this to be a very significantly +EV call. it should be noted that if curtainz was a stupidly tight player, this call would of course be horrible. (if he's playing 77+, A9+, this would be a -2.7 call, which is wow bad.) something tells me this curtainz guy probably isn't stupidly tight though. also should be included that there is bonus EV for spite call busting a fellow 2+2er. other interesting things: say your range is as wide as 22+, A2+, K2+, Q2+, J9+, calling with things like K6o is +EV too. so well, maybe that explains why those fish that call with Kxo for 80% of their stacks are doing it, they know it's +EV. citanul |
#3
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Re: The kind of calls you need to make at the $215s....
Yea I just think it's interesting to highlight the difference between the $55s+ the $215s. I highly doubt anyone would recommend calling there against a typical opponent in a $55. |
#4
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Re: The kind of calls you need to make at the $215s....
[ QUOTE ]
Yea I just think it's interesting to highlight the difference between the $55s+ the $215s. I highly doubt anyone would recommend calling there against a typical opponent in a $55. [/ QUOTE ] Here's the part I'm not understanding though. How do we know that it is recommended to do this in the 215s against a typical opponent? I'm not saying that it ISN'T, I'm just saying that as I read this and try to educate myself, I don't see anything here that tells me that something is correct at the 215s that isn't correct at the 55s. I could post lots of hands where I pushed a hand in the 55s and someone made a call and beat me, but that wouldn't really mean anything. |
#5
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Re: The kind of calls you need to make at the $215s....
[ QUOTE ]
Yea I just think it's interesting to highlight the difference between the $55s+ the $215s. I highly doubt anyone would recommend calling there against a typical opponent in a $55. [/ QUOTE ] I was just about to ask the rationale behind the call when I saw this quote. This explains a little more why I (playing the $55s) shouldn't make this call against random donk-head. Of course if I ever make it to the $215s, my edge over others is much less, or none at all, and the opponents more agressive, where I'd be making this call routinely. Does that sound right? |
#6
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Re: The kind of calls you need to make at the $215s....
Depends on situation. In this situation it was definitely a call. I'm sure there are players where it's a fold or at least much closer. However it's more common to make such tough calls in the $215s, especially calls that will leave you desperate with very little folding equity if you lose, yet you are reasonably comfortable in chips when you make the call. |
#7
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Re: The kind of calls you need to make at the $215s....
Because he knows you will be stealing with a very wide range of hands here...
Out of interest, what range of hands should he be calling with?? |
#8
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Re: The kind of calls you need to make at the $215s....
Three more things about this call, one why it's good and two
why it can be very ugly: 1)If you win, you eliminate a very good player to your right (plus the image play); 2)If you are even slightly off on your read, this play sucks; 3)If he knows you are good, there's a very good chance you *are* off on your read and his range is tighter. So basically, I'd fold and feel pretty decent doing it, but I'd still spite call if my kicker was, like, a 5. |
#9
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Re: The kind of calls you need to make at the $215s....
Level of thinking:
Nick knows curtains will be stealing with a huge range here. So he should call. Curtains knows that nick knows he will be stealing with a huge range here, so he tightens up his pushing standards. In turn, nick knows this and recongizes he needs a much higher calling requirement. Curtains knows this and goes back to loose pushing standards. It could go on forever.... |
#10
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Re: The kind of calls you need to make at the $215s....
Almost no one can call loose enough here to make pushing a very wide range incorrect. I mean he has to start calling with hands like K6o-Q9o before I stop pushing with +EV, and that's really tough to do.
Also let's talk about how unbelievably unlucky I was to not win this hand. It's completely ridiculous losing JTs to A2o. |
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