Is this a good plan? Staking a friend, want suggestions

[w_alloy]

I have a friend who was recently moaning about getting a job while in college to pay for skiing. He plays poker rarely and casually, but he is smart, even-tempered, and honest with himself. He has read most of HPAFP casually and understands the concepts. He has also spent a few hours watching me 4 table 5/10 6m and when I asked him what he should do he gave gernerally sound strategy. I think he could be a very good poker player.

However, he doesnt have any money to start (he has all living expenses and college payed for but not much else). His computer is an oldish apple. He needs to be making money by december.

To me this sounds like a perfect opportunity for me to stake him. We grew up together and trust is not an issue. Additionally, I do not know any poker players (besides poor casual ones). TPT is obviously a great venue for everything, but I think it would be nice to have someone who I can talk to outside of the internet about hands, swings, limits, etc. My current bankroll can support staking him.

He said he would be very interested if I made him an offer. As you cant really do internet poker properly on a mac, I also need to buy him a computer (sans moniter).

Any suggestions? Obviously, since he needs to start winning soon, reading HPAFP, SSH, and this forum will be an integral part of the plan. However, i dont want to make him do anything for x amount of time. I can also start him out at any limit and need to decide whether he should play short or full.

My current plan would go something like me buying him a computer for around 600, giving him 500 for an initial BR. I would have him pay me 5% of the money he has over the initial BR every week. Once he builds his BR to 2500 (a good BR for 3/6 6m), he does not have to pay interest anymore and starts paying me back. However, he only has to pay me back 900 instead of the 1100 (this number can be adjusted based on comp cost). This deduction is because my goal is not to make money off him but to help a friend. I will prolly make money, but the primary goal of the interest is to motivate him to play a lot untill he gets to profitable levels.

With his 500 Br, we would play .5/1 6m limit for 200 BBs. At this point he moves to 1/26m. He stays there untill he gets to 1200, when he moves to 2/4 full. He plays this untill he gets to 1800, and then moves to 3/6 6m. I will set loss limits at 250BB for any limit. I will watch him play for at least an hour a week and we will go over eachother's hands and comment on them for 15-30 minutes every day. I will learn from this too. He will start playing 2 tables add them as he sees fit.

Problems: 6m limit is very very swingy, which is a huge problem. But it seems like the softest games out there right now. I also think 5/10 6m is the easiest game to beat for a largish amount, and its better to make the switch to short sooner then later. I thought about having him play full, but 3/6 and 5/10 seem so much tougher and slower then their 6m counterparts. I also thought about having him play NL, but then my coaching would be much much less important, and also the selfish reason of wanting a friend who plays my game.

I went back and forth about adding the 2/4 full step in there, but I think its important he learns full strategy. The biggest adjustments will be pre-flop, and this he will pick up quickly. I also think 2/4 full isnt that hard to 4 table, and this will be good practice. The BR jump from 1/2 to 3/6 would also be hard without 2/4.

Another thing i considered was having him start at a higher limit. I thought about giving him a possibly replenishing bankroll of 500 and starting him at 2/4 full (after maybe a few days of coaching at 1/2 full). His move would then be down to 1/2 6m for a while then up to 3/6 6m. Starting him with a larger BR is also a possibility. With around 20 hours a week, do you think its reasonably that he could get to the established goal by december with the current plan?

I am completely open to suggestions about radicaly different types of staking.

Thoughts, comments, and suggestions greatly apprecciated!

[w_alloy]

Maybe the post is a bit long, but I wanted to get all the info across so advice would be well informed. Anyways, bump in the mornin'.

[Reef]

when it comes to friends and $, I think standard play is don't loan an amount you would miss more than them.

this could be a good investment though.

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a friend who was recently moaning about getting a job while in college to pay for skiing. He plays poker rarely and casually, but he is smart, even-tempered, and honest with himself. He has read most of HPAFP casually and understands the concepts. He has also spent a few hours watching me 4 table 5/10 6m and when I asked him what he should do he gave gernerally sound strategy. I think he could be a very good poker player.

However, he doesnt have any money to start (he has all living expenses and college payed for but not much else). His computer is an oldish apple. He needs to be making money by december.

To me this sounds like a perfect opportunity for me to stake him. We grew up together and trust is not an issue. Additionally, I do not know any poker players (besides poor casual ones). TPT is obviously a great venue for everything, but I think it would be nice to have someone who I can talk to outside of the internet about hands, swings, limits, etc. My current bankroll can support staking him.

He said he would be very interested if I made him an offer. As you cant really do internet poker properly on a mac, I also need to buy him a computer (sans moniter).

Any suggestions? Obviously, since he needs to start winning soon, reading HPAFP, SSH, and this forum will be an integral part of the plan. However, i dont want to make him do anything for x amount of time. I can also start him out at any limit and need to decide whether he should play short or full.

My current plan would go something like me buying him a computer for around 600, giving him 500 for an initial BR. I would have him pay me 5% of the money he has over the initial BR every week. Once he builds his BR to 2500 (a good BR for 3/6 6m), he does not have to pay interest anymore and starts paying me back. However, he only has to pay me back 900 instead of the 1100 (this number can be adjusted based on comp cost). This deduction is because my goal is not to make money off him but to help a friend. I will prolly make money, but the primary goal of the interest is to motivate him to play a lot untill he gets to profitable levels.

With his 500 Br, we would play .5/1 6m limit for 200 BBs. At this point he moves to 1/26m. He stays there untill he gets to 1200, when he moves to 2/4 full. He plays this untill he gets to 1800, and then moves to 3/6 6m. I will set loss limits at 250BB for any limit. I will watch him play for at least an hour a week and we will go over eachother's hands and comment on them for 15-30 minutes every day. I will learn from this too. He will start playing 2 tables add them as he sees fit.

Problems: 6m limit is very very swingy, which is a huge problem. But it seems like the softest games out there right now. I also think 5/10 6m is the easiest game to beat for a largish amount, and its better to make the switch to short sooner then later. I thought about having him play full, but 3/6 and 5/10 seem so much tougher and slower then their 6m counterparts. I also thought about having him play NL, but then my coaching would be much much less important, and also the selfish reason of wanting a friend who plays my game.

I went back and forth about adding the 2/4 full step in there, but I think its important he learns full strategy. The biggest adjustments will be pre-flop, and this he will pick up quickly. I also think 2/4 full isnt that hard to 4 table, and this will be good practice. The BR jump from 1/2 to 3/6 would also be hard without 2/4.

Another thing i considered was having him start at a higher limit. I thought about giving him a possibly replenishing bankroll of 500 and starting him at 2/4 full (after maybe a few days of coaching at 1/2 full). His move would then be down to 1/2 6m for a while then up to 3/6 6m. Starting him with a larger BR is also a possibility. With around 20 hours a week, do you think its reasonably that he could get to the established goal by december with the current plan?

I am completely open to suggestions about radicaly different types of staking.

Thoughts, comments, and suggestions greatly apprecciated!

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't do this unless I were fully prepared to lose the money you're putting up and it wouldn't hurt to do so.

Quite frankly, that he's smart, even tempered, and seems to understand basic strategy concepts is no indication at all of whether he's likely to become a winning poker player.

The learning curve in poker is a bitch, and a lot of bright people can't master it.

He's a person who plays rarely and you guys figure he can just sit down with the idea that in 3 months he'll be able to play poker in the place of a part time job and this doesn't seem like a high risk proposition to you?

I'm not saying don't do it, but I am saying you are approaching this with a very optimistic viewpoint.

If he loses everything, how does it affect your friendship?


--Zetack

[Matt24]

I only read the first paragraph of your post, but here is what I would do. Sign him up for rakeback and you will earn all rakeback through life of the deal. Start him at 1-2 or whatever you feel comfortable with. This is what I do, and the rakeback I get is pretty significant and definately makes it plus EV. Then go 50/50 with profits.

[spamuell]

It seems weird to charge him interest but also say you're not doing it to make money so he doesn't need to pay you back the full amount.

[w_alloy]

Thanks for the replies, some clarifactions, answers, and comments:

I should have stated how strong our frienship is more clearly, we will continue to be friends if he loses everything without much of a problem. I can also afford to lose the money, although losing 1k for a college kid (who's parents arent paying for anything) would suck. But i can def. afford it.

To spamuell, the interest is more of a motivating factor then anything. If he gets to 3/6 6m then has to move down because of bad luck or w/e, I want him to feel like the juice is running the whole time and he needs to get back on track. If you think I should discount more (it is fair I get some reward for my invsesment but not much), or you can find a better way to motivate (I'm sure he will be fine normally, but do not discount how much downswings can make someone wanna quit).

To matt24, you really shouldnt post without reading a thread. Your post is also confusing, although I am not sure I want you to clarify.

About the possibility that he won't be good, I think you guys are way way overstating this. With proper guidance (this is sososo important), I dont see how someone with reasonable intelligence could lose at this game, let alone someone who is probably upper 95-99 and is very well adjusted. Smart people who dont get poker either start out wrong, never get the proper guidance, or are too arrogant to examine their game objectively. Do you really think there is a big risk he cant turn into a winning player?

[Matt24]

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To matt24, you really shouldnt post without reading a thread. Your post is also confusing, although I am not sure I want you to clarify.



[/ QUOTE ]

sorry man, I'll stay out of your posts from now on. Just trying to help in an area i have EXPERIENCE in and have done well with.

btw, my post isnt confusing

[utmt40]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]



To matt24, you really shouldnt post without reading a thread. Your post is also confusing, although I am not sure I want you to clarify.



[/ QUOTE ]

sorry man, I'll stay out of your posts from now on. Just trying to help in an area i have EXPERIENCE in and have done well with.

btw, my post isnt confusing

[/ QUOTE ]

What a douche... [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[Matt24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]



To matt24, you really shouldnt post without reading a thread. Your post is also confusing, although I am not sure I want you to clarify.



[/ QUOTE ]

sorry man, I'll stay out of your posts from now on. Just trying to help in an area i have EXPERIENCE in and have done well with.

btw, my post isnt confusing

[/ QUOTE ]

What a douche... [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

me?