Calling to the flop % question

Most of what I've read in dealing with hold'em, as a rule of thumb if you're calling over 20% to see the flop, you're playing too many hands. I've usually been in about the 18-22% range over my .05/.10 sessions at Pokerstars.com.

However, I've recently have begun reading Sklanky's "How to Win Low Limit Hold'em", and in following its recommendations for starting hands in position I've been now been seeing the flop only 6-8% of the time, and have been losing marginally thereafter, whereas I was making modest gains before.

Have I just happened to run into a cold card streak at the same time? Low limit I'd guess is intended for $1 and over games, so is micro limit that much different and I should play looser?

[RiverTheNuts]

Im not sure about the exact calling to flop stat, but in micro games that are very loose, you have to look at it from a theory standpoint.

Lots of people in on the flop + little raising + unskilled players = chasers galore.

For this reason, hands like AKo lose some value compared to normal circumstances, while a hand like JQs gains a ton of value, because you are in the hand to hit 2 pair, a straight, or a flush, and will be getting correct odds to chase almost all the time. When you do hit, people will almost always call you down or even raise with their baby junk flushes or ass ends of the straights. Compare this to AKo, where you are in the hand to make top pair top kicker. With lots of people drawing to 2 pair, straights and flushes, AKo wins smaller pots and loses bigger ones, if that makes sense.

This doesnt mean dont play AKo... push it hard preflop and when you are ahead, but when you get raised in micro games, it generally means a big hand, since they are normally so passive. A key to killing the micro games is not playing hands too far just because they were good preflop. Bet until someone tells you otherwise, but dont call 3 bets out of position with top pair on a drawy board.

Summary: loosen up slightly when it comes to your hands that when played make big hands (middle pairs, QJs, JTs, etc)

hope that helps

[numeri]

18%-22% is a reasonable number. The term you'll see on here is VP$IP - voluntarily putting money in the pot. Check out the FAQ for some other good information.

It's certainly possible to only see 6% of flops for a short session. I've had sessions of 50 hands with a VP$IP of only 7%. If you've played more than 50 hands and are still only seeing 6% of the flops, you're probably misinterpreting the starting hand recommendations. You may want to check out
this link for a good starting hand chart.

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
Im not sure about the exact calling to flop stat, but in micro games that are very loose, you have to look at it from a theory standpoint.

Lots of people in on the flop + little raising + unskilled players = chasers galore.

For this reason, hands like AKo lose some value compared to normal circumstances, while a hand like JQs gains a ton of value, because you are in the hand to hit 2 pair, a straight, or a flush, and will be getting correct odds to chase almost all the time. When you do hit, people will almost always call you down or even raise with their baby junk flushes or ass ends of the straights. Compare this to AKo, where you are in the hand to make top pair top kicker. With lots of people drawing to 2 pair, straights and flushes, AKo wins smaller pots and loses bigger ones, if that makes sense.

This doesnt mean dont play AKo... push it hard preflop and when you are ahead, but when you get raised in micro games, it generally means a big hand, since they are normally so passive. A key to killing the micro games is not playing hands too far just because they were good preflop. Bet until someone tells you otherwise, but dont call 3 bets out of position with top pair on a drawy board.

Summary: loosen up slightly when it comes to your hands that when played make big hands (middle pairs, QJs, JTs, etc)

hope that helps

[/ QUOTE ]

AKo has more equity 10handed than QJs if you are the only raiser, its a better hand in almost all situations, and better than sml pairs, suitedconnectors in superloose games. Its value doesn't go down, period. you have no theory just raw speculation, that a ton of ppl before you have incorrectly spit out.

[RiverTheNuts]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Im not sure about the exact calling to flop stat, but in micro games that are very loose, you have to look at it from a theory standpoint.

Lots of people in on the flop + little raising + unskilled players = chasers galore.

For this reason, hands like AKo lose some value compared to normal circumstances, while a hand like JQs gains a ton of value, because you are in the hand to hit 2 pair, a straight, or a flush, and will be getting correct odds to chase almost all the time. When you do hit, people will almost always call you down or even raise with their baby junk flushes or ass ends of the straights. Compare this to AKo, where you are in the hand to make top pair top kicker. With lots of people drawing to 2 pair, straights and flushes, AKo wins smaller pots and loses bigger ones, if that makes sense.

This doesnt mean dont play AKo... push it hard preflop and when you are ahead, but when you get raised in micro games, it generally means a big hand, since they are normally so passive. A key to killing the micro games is not playing hands too far just because they were good preflop. Bet until someone tells you otherwise, but dont call 3 bets out of position with top pair on a drawy board.

Summary: loosen up slightly when it comes to your hands that when played make big hands (middle pairs, QJs, JTs, etc)

hope that helps

[/ QUOTE ]

AKo has more equity 10handed than QJs if you are the only raiser, its a better hand in almost all situations, and better than sml pairs, suitedconnectors in superloose games. Its value doesn't go down, period. you have no theory just raw speculation, that a ton of ppl before you have incorrectly spit out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fine, I worded it poorly... a hand like AKo becomes harder to play correctly and profitably with 10 limpers than a hand like QJs. If you were all in preflop with AKo or QJs Id take AKo every time, but value betting while ahead becomes much more tenous and difficult with that many people in the pot; further, with alot of people in the pot it is very difficult to price someone out. The variance becomes huge, and the increase in equity is not as much as the numbers say because it becomes harder to play