A quick tip on how to handle a downswing

[SNOWBALL138]

For those of you who have read some of my other posts, you'll probably know already that I take pride in my formidable mental health poker toolbox.

Here's my newest addition:

This week, I was getting raped in shorthanded limit holdem. I'm down ~100BB. At my lowest, I was down 175BB or so.
Don't worry though. I'm not in danger of going broke.
Anyway, instead of ignoring the losses or trying to get even, I set an intermediate goal: winning some of it back.

That way, I am able to acknowledge my losses. Instead of smothering the negative energy, I deal with it directly. Trying to smother the negative energy that you feel when you lose is like trying to put out a fire with a lot of gasoline. Often it works for a small fire, but when it doesn't work, you will get killed.

The opposite approach is to let your negative emotions have free reign. This leads to playing too many hands, and overplaying your fair hands. Instead of frantically feeling that you have to get even, it is better to set a goal that is both achievable, and consistent with good play.

I actually read about this in Barry Greenstein's book, Ace on the River which is excellent. Anyway, I hope that all you limit players presently keep this, or other similarly helpful tricks in your toolbox.

Best wishes,
Snowball

[PLOlover]

I don't get it? Did you drop down in limit?

[Matt Williams]

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I don't get it? Did you drop down in limit?

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I am guessing he played ultra-tight and tried to win back 25 to 50 BB's.

[TStoneMBD]

this reminds me of the passage in ace on the river where barry says something to the effect of if you are stuck 100BBs, rather than trying to get it all back you should only be trying to win 50BBs instead. i dont want to send off the wrong impression because i understand exactly what barry was trying to say here, but what he really should have said was that if you are stuck 100BBs you should be trying to get back 4 of them if you play for 4 hours and are a 1BB/hr player. instead, his advice promotes tilt rather than digresses it. i dont think barry's book should be used to help support your post here, because youve written about how to handle tilt far better than he has imho.

[PLOlover]

[ QUOTE ]
I am guessing he played ultra-tight and tried to win back 25 to 50 BB's.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just log off, record my results in my logbook, take a break, sometimes only 5 minutes, then log back on, open my log book, and play.

Ok, the above is a lie, but it's what I should do. Heck, maybe I'll start doing that. Thanks.

[ChicagoTroy]

A couple weeks back I dropped 200 BBs in two days in 5/10 6-Max. I took a day off and came back focusing on playing good poker. IMO focusing on winning the money back is counterproductive, since you're statistically about as likely to drop 50 BB your first session back as win 50.

[SNOWBALL138]

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A couple weeks back I dropped 200 BBs in two days in 5/10 6-Max.

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ouch

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I took a day off and came back focusing on playing good poker.

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nice!

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IMO focusing on winning the money back is counterproductive,

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Its always best to focus on winning, or better yet, destroying your opponent

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you're statistically about as likely to drop 50 BB your first session back as win 50.

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Thats not true unless you are a breakeven player. Are you?

Anyway, your approach is 100% viable. However, my post is actually more intended to address how you should deal with a loss when you are stuck and plan to keep playing. I should have been more clear about that. Taking a one day break every time you are stuck is going to make it very hard to get any hours in. However, if you are down 200bb, and you've reached Caro's threshold of misery, then a different approach should be considered.

Best,
Snowball

[mindflayer]

only 2 ways i know..
A) dont focus on the loss, focus on the current hand and
MAKE THE RIGHT PLAY!
if that doesn't work,

B) keep repeating to yourself

Serenity now,
Serenity now..
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INSANITY LATER

[SNOWBALL138]

[ QUOTE ]
this reminds me of the passage in ace on the river where barry says something to the effect of if you are stuck 100BBs, rather than trying to get it all back you should only be trying to win 50BBs instead. i dont want to send off the wrong impression because i understand exactly what barry was trying to say here, but what he really should have said was that if you are stuck 100BBs you should be trying to get back 4 of them if you play for 4 hours and are a 1BB/hr player. instead, his advice promotes tilt rather than digresses it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think trying to win 100bb when you are down a hundred is consistent with giving in to your negative emotions and becoming utterly frantic. Its important to recognize that results and goals play a very important role in a player's game.

However, I think trying to win 4bb when you are down 100bb is consistent with denying the power of your negative emotions. In a way, its like denying your losses happened at all, because having an 8 hour session where you are down 100bb for four hours, and up 4 bb for four hours still means you are -12bb/hr for that session. 1bb/hr players almost never end their sessions up 1bb/hr. Ideally, we should all be people who can look at our sessions in terms of thousands of hours instead of less than ten hours. I think that is too much to expect of ourselves sometimes though.

Trying to think in extremely abstract terms when you are faced with a very ugly reality is too much to ask of ourselves.
I think people who can successfully convince themselves that they are winning Sklansky bucks with every hand played are almost mythical creatures. Its easy for someone who is having a very nice week to talk about the long term, and EV, etc. But for someone in the middle of a downswing, thinking like this stops having any effects on us, because in the short term, emotions are more powerful than thoughts.

[TStoneMBD]

when i say that you should be trying to win 4BBs when you are down 100 i am saying that you should continue to play optimal poker. trying to win 50BBs implies that you are going to gamble it up and change how you address the game.

i had a 25BB downswing at turningstone last week. while of course that is not anything significant, losing that money made me upset. however, i kept playing because my game did not deteriorate and my intention while continuing to play that game was to earn my usual winrate. if my usual winrate in that game is 1BB/hr and i played 2 more hours and won 3BBs i would have been happy. i would have been disappointed in how the night turned out but i would have been happy in my result after the downswing occurred.

i guess i am a mythical creature.