9To in BB

#1 08-23-2005, 06:52 PM

How bad is this hand? I think the preflop call is fine, the flop call is debateable, and the river call is bad. What are your thoughts? I have only been at the table for a couple orbits so I have no great reads but no one sticks out as being a complete fish yet..

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, 4 folds, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls, MP1 folds.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, MP2 calls.

River: (8.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP2 raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.25 BB

thirddan · #2 08-23-2005, 06:59 PM

i think the preflop call is borderline, but i don't think i usually make it...

on the flop i kind of like a c/r, since you will usually have between 7-10 outs and you might be able to run MP2 off of unpaired overs...

on the river i dont like your call of the raise as i don't think you will be good 1/10 of the time...his hand looks an awful lot like 88 here...

tyler_cracker · #3 08-23-2005, 07:02 PM

Fold preflop. You're not getting much overlay and your hand doesn't play very well short-handed.

Fold the flop. You have 3 outs to the nuts, plus .5 more for the 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], plus maybe .5 for your 1-card 6th nut backdoor flush draw. You're only getting 7.5:1 (maybe 8.5:1) on your call.

The turn raise is good, as villain could well just have overcards, and we'd like for him to fold those.

I don't really see what we're beating on the river unless it's a desperation bluff. I guess you have to call down getting 11:1, but i wouldn't expect to win.

thirddan · #4 08-23-2005, 07:06 PM

you have to consider that a lot of the time his pair outs are clean, although they should be somewhat discounted in case we pair on the turn and an over comes on the river...

#5 08-23-2005, 07:22 PM

Doesn't a flop c/r seem iffy because whenever he has a hand here i get 3-bet and end up having to call on my gutshot. But if I just call I get to fold when I miss and c/r if i hit top pair or the straight. Tell me if this logic seems wrong.

thirddan · #6 08-23-2005, 07:25 PM

no, your point is defnitely valid, and i think a lot of it has to do with a read on the PFR...if he is the kind of player that is gonna go to the river with AK/AQ/AJ then i think check/call is better, but if he will let go of those unpaired overs on the turn if he misses then i think a c/r and bet the turn will pick up this pot a lot of the time...

sy_or_bust · #7 08-23-2005, 07:34 PM

This is a good board to donk the turn. Since you hit a c/r is reasonable, but if the turn brought a brick I would strongly consider leading out.

tyler_cracker · #8 08-23-2005, 08:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
you have to consider that a lot of the time his pair outs are clean, although they should be somewhat discounted in case we pair on the turn and an over comes on the river...

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough. This pushes us towards a call, and i also like your idea for a flop check/raise, especially since it faces MP1 with 2 cold). I'm a little worried about MP1, since heremains to act behind us.

thirddan · #9 08-23-2005, 08:09 PM

meh, someone that checked the flop is very unlikely to call two cold on this board, unless they have a monster or flush draw, and if they have a flush draw or monster then there isn't anything we can do about it...what we can do is try and protect our outs and possibly win the pot unimproved by foldin g out overs...also, getting the third player out will improve the chances that we win by spiking a lone pair...