Urgent Structure Help Please

[cormacie]

Hi,
I've been trying to sort out a structure for quite some time to accommodate for a Re-Buy and Freezeout tournament. At first I had a solution to get more players out of the chips which would have resulted in a different structure for a Re-Buy and a Freezeout. I decided to drop this and now just want to concentrate on getting the best structure possible. The tournaments will be:
1) Re-Buy - Unlimited Re-Buys for 1.5 hours with an add on available. Will last about 6 hours with about 100 people average.
2) Freezeout - To last 4 hours with about 100 people.

I have only White, Red, Blue, Green and Black chips to choose from.

I want the tournaments to have:
-Starting Stack 50 x Big Blind
-Re-Buys easy to swap for change at the table (so say 2 x half starting stack chips)
-Distinguishable colour set up (try not to have Black in play the same time as blue and white as these colours are easily hidden in a black stack)
-Same Structure/Starting Stack/Colour Value for both Re-Buy and Freezeout
-Fair blind increases to allow for play.

I have come up with the following but I'm not too sure which is the best and I haven't worked out a structure for any of them.

Legend:
W = White
R = Red
G = Green
BU = Blue
BK = Black

# = Starting Stack chip(s)
(#) = Colour up chip(s)
[RB/TU #] = amount of chips required of particular colour used for 3 Re-Buys and 1 top up.
*Note: For Freezeout tournament, simply remove the [RB/TU] chips

Type A:
W-$1 x 10
R-$5 x 8(2)
G-$25 x 2 (2)
BU-$50 (2) [RB/TU 8]
BK-$200 (2)

Type B:
G-$25 x 8
BK-$100 x 8(2)
R-$500 x 3(2) [RB/TU 4]
W-$2000 (1) [RB/TU 4]
BU-$5000 (2)

Type C:
W-$10 x 10
R-$50 x 8(2)
G-$250 x 2 (2)
BU-$500 (2) [RB/TU 8]
BK-$2000 (2)

I think the best I have come up with to cater for all my needs is this:
W-$10 x 10
BU-$50 x 8(2)
G-$250 x 2 (2)
R-$500 (2) [RB/TU 8]
BK-$2000 (2)

Even though this doesn't go by the Standard colour denom it is close to it (White = 10 instead of 1, Red 500 instead of 5, Green 250 instead of 25) so players should be able to adapt to it easily enough.

I've looked at homepokertourney.com but since this isn't exactly whats on that site, I want a structure that will work exactly the way I want it to so any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you.

[Lottery Larry]

Without reading this whole thing right now, it looks like you worked it out.

[Zetack]

You're running a hundred person tourney? Holy [censored] man, what do you have, a sixty car garage?

--Zetack

[cormacie]

All I'll say is that you may have seen me on MTV Cribs, that's all the info I'm giving away

That's a joke by the way. This isn't for HOME but for Hotel Function rooms and the likes, I was told to ask here rather than any other forum on the site.

So what about the above set up?

[ky70]

I don't have experience with large tourneys, but someone please help this gentlemen...he has these structure questions all over the place and on different forums. Giving him answers will truly be a win-win

[cormacie]

Thanks! haha, yup, same post on chiptalk.net, pokerforums.org and thepokerforum.com, still no solid reply

Any help appreciated

[Lottery Larry]

** My comments

1) Re-Buy - Unlimited Re-Buys for 1.5 hours with an add on available. Will last about 6 hours with about 100 people average.
2) Freezeout - To last 4 hours with about 100 people.

I have only White, Red, Blue, Green and Black chips to choose from.
*** How many chips of each do you have? This is important to determine several things. Or is this also a “help me buy the right number of chips so I can start my poker business for bars” request?

I want the tournaments to have:
-Starting Stack 50 x Big Blind
**** Why so low? Speed of tournament? This will affect your goal of “fair blind increases to allow for play”

-Re-Buys easy to swap for change at the table (so say 2 x half starting stack chips)

*** I’m not sure what the latter part means.

-Distinguishable colour set up (try not to have Black in play the same time as blue and white as these colours are easily hidden in a black stack)

** Then why do you own these chips? Also, everything below doesn’t seem to meet this goal very well. I think you solve this by the chips you buy- make them distinctive. If you can’t tell the whites and blacks apart, the chips suck.

-Same Structure/Starting Stack/Colour Value for both Re-Buy and Freezeout

*** Why would you want the same structure for rebuy and freezeout tourneys?

-Fair blind increases to allow for play.
*** Time limits might make “fair” tough…. What is fair to you ?

Legend:
W = White
R = Red
G = Green
BU = Blue
BK = Black

# = Starting Stack chip(s)
(#) = Colour up chip(s)
[RB/TU #] = amount of chips required of particular colour used for 3 Re-Buys and 1 top up.
*Note: For Freezeout tournament, simply remove the [RB/TU] chips

Type A:
W-$1 x 10
R-$5 x 8(2)
G-$25 x 2 (2)
BU-$50 (2) [RB/TU 8] *** This doesn’t add up, based on your formula of 3 rebuys and an add-on/top-off
BK-$200 (2)

------

*** I worked out just the starting stacks and some blinds progression based on your originals:

Type A:
W-$1 x 10 T10
R-$5 x 8 T40
G-$25 x 2 T50
BU-$50 T50
BK-$200 T200
** TOTAL STARTING STACK $T350
Round 1 blinds: $T2/5 (then 5/10, 10/20… ugh, forget this one. You could go 30 min+ rounds, and double or triple the blind jumps, but that won’t be great)

Type B:
G-$25 x 8 T200
BK-$100 x 8 T800
R-$500 x 3 T1500
W-$2000 T2000
BU-$5000 T5000
** TOTAL STARTING STACK $T9500
Round 1 blinds: $T100/200 (75/150 seems dumb, but you could do it. I’d drop the quarters for this setup and go 100/200, 200/400, 300/600, 500/1000 and up)

100 players= 950,000 in chips, so the freezeout tourney should end when blinds are around T20,000/40,000, maybe T15K/30K. Set that blind level at your ending time, descend in blinds to the starting T100/200 and then see how many rounds you have over
Rebuys, you’re going to have to guesstimate the total amount of chips at the end and then readjust the blinds and the progression accordingly.

Type C:
W-$10 x 10 T100
R-$50 x 8 T400
G-$250 x 2 T500
BU-$500 T500
BK-$2000 T2000
** TOTAL STARTING STACK $T3500
Round 1 blinds: $T30/60 (You can’t do $35/70 starting, so progress 50/100, then….. ugh, you don’t have enough $50 and $10 chips to make a decent progression. Drop this as well)



** All of this needs more work, I think. With low starting ratios, you need to ramp up the blinds progression at the end of the tourney (making it a crapshoot) or kill players at the beginning.

[Lottery Larry]

[ QUOTE ]
but someone please help this gentlemen...he has these structure questions all over the place and on different forums. Giving him answers will truly be a win-win

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, here and chiptalk.... but only because I love you

[cormacie]

[ QUOTE ]
*** How many chips of each do you have? This is important to determine several things. Or is this also a “help me buy the right number of chips so I can start my poker business for bars” request?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi, thanks allot for the feedback on both forums, I'll reply in this one instead of chiptalk, I'm giving myself 4,000 chips per 100 people, this should be enough for Re-Buys/Top Ups/Colour Ups, that's basically 40 chips assigned to each player for this, which is the way I have worked it out using the numbers in each of the TYPES above

[ QUOTE ]
I want the tournaments to have:
-Starting Stack 50 x Big Blind
**** Why so low? Speed of tournament? This will affect your goal of “fair blind increases to allow for play”

-Re-Buys easy to swap for change at the table (so say 2 x half starting stack chips)

*** I’m not sure what the latter part means.

-Distinguishable colour set up (try not to have Black in play the same time as blue and white as these colours are easily hidden in a black stack)

** Then why do you own these chips? Also, everything below doesn’t seem to meet this goal very well. I think you solve this by the chips you buy- make them distinctive. If you can’t tell the whites and blacks apart, the chips suck.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think 50X Big Blind is very fair, no? Most tournaments like this only have 40X the BB. Do you think it's better to have less of a starting stack BB wise to make the tournament run quicker?

When I talked of Re-Buys being half of the starting stack, I mean if the starting stack is $1000, I don't want a re-buy chip of $1000 as it will be very hard to people to make change once they get it, I want 2x$500 chips instead.

The chips are custom chips and I am very happy with them, however, if lighting is bad etc, blue can be mistaken for black and vice versa.

[ QUOTE ]
-Same Structure/Starting Stack/Colour Value for both Re-Buy and Freezeout

*** Why would you want the same structure for rebuy and freezeout tourneys?

-Fair blind increases to allow for play.
*** Time limits might make “fair” tough…. What is fair to you ?

[/ QUOTE ]

We want the same structure so punters will be used to our tournaments and know what to expect at them in terms of play etc.

Fair to me is not a crapshoot, plenty of room for play at the beginning, but skill also involved in coping with blind increases. I want skill involved in these tournaments, not luck.
[ QUOTE ]

Legend:
W = White
R = Red
G = Green
BU = Blue
BK = Black

# = Starting Stack chip(s)
(#) = Colour up chip(s)
[RB/TU #] = amount of chips required of particular colour used for 3 Re-Buys and 1 top up.
*Note: For Freezeout tournament, simply remove the [RB/TU] chips

Type A:
W-$1 x 10
R-$5 x 8(2)
G-$25 x 2 (2)
BU-$50 (2) [RB/TU 8] *** This doesn’t add up, based on your formula of 3 rebuys and an add-on/top-off
BK-$200 (2)

------

*** I worked out just the starting stacks and some blinds progression based on your originals:

Type A:
W-$1 x 10 T10
R-$5 x 8 T40
G-$25 x 2 T50
BU-$50 T50
BK-$200 T200
** TOTAL STARTING STACK $T350
Round 1 blinds: $T2/5 (then 5/10, 10/20… ugh, forget this one. You could go 30 min+ rounds, and double or triple the blind jumps, but that won’t be great)

Type B:
G-$25 x 8 T200
BK-$100 x 8 T800
R-$500 x 3 T1500
W-$2000 T2000
BU-$5000 T5000
** TOTAL STARTING STACK $T9500
Round 1 blinds: $T100/200 (75/150 seems dumb, but you could do it. I’d drop the quarters for this setup and go 100/200, 200/400, 300/600, 500/1000 and up)

100 players= 950,000 in chips, so the freezeout tourney should end when blinds are around T20,000/40,000, maybe T15K/30K. Set that blind level at your ending time, descend in blinds to the starting T100/200 and then see how many rounds you have over
Rebuys, you’re going to have to guesstimate the total amount of chips at the end and then readjust the blinds and the progression accordingly.

Type C:
W-$10 x 10 T100
R-$50 x 8 T400
G-$250 x 2 T500
BU-$500 T500
BK-$2000 T2000
** TOTAL STARTING STACK $T3500
Round 1 blinds: $T30/60 (You can’t do $35/70 starting, so progress 50/100, then….. ugh, you don’t have enough $50 and $10 chips to make a decent progression. Drop this as well)



** All of this needs more work, I think. With low starting ratios, you need to ramp up the blinds progression at the end of the tourney (making it a crapshoot) or kill players at the beginning.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for all that, I see your starting stacks are more than 50X BB, do you really think 50X is too low?

For the time restrictions I think it is fair, they say anything between 50X and up is a decent starting stack, 50X is really all we can go with giving the time barrier.

What do you think of:
W-$10 x 10
BU-$50 x 8(2)
G-$250 x 2 (2)
R-$500 (2) [RB/TU 8]
BK-$2000 (2)

blinds starting at 10/20 (50X BB) and going 20/40 40/80 80/100 etc?

Thanks again

[JonPKibble]

Only three different colors are necessary for the starting chips. For blinds and starting chip samples, just go to homepokertourney.com. Otherwise here are my 2 cents:

Red-5
Green-25
Black-100

Start with 10x Red, 10x Green, 7x Black.

10/20
20/40
30/60

50/100
75/150
100/200

etc...