lets say everyone plays by the book....then is +ev still +? or -ev

[wutevahung]

so i was reading small limit holdem by sklansky, there was this part says something like "if everyone on ur table plays the correct way, make no error, all the moves r +ev then in the long run everyone will break even" or something like that.

so my question is... lets say we are in a mad poker world where everyone plays by SSH, everyone plays the correct way, +ev then no longer becomes +ev, it just neutral because you are not going to win and you are not going to lose, so then if you do something that is -ev normally in a situation like this, it will become +ev?

so for example, everyone who read that book would know not to bluff with AK high on the river, but lets say if you do it, then all those people who play exactly like the book would fold their bottom pair or something because they know that you wouldnt bluff with AK high so they have to put you on something else

i dont really know the point of this post, but one of my friend once said to me "the game is so easy, they play by the book", i just thought that then you are playing against opponents who actually read and digested the informations given by pros, then they should be pretty good and i do not see that game being easy to beat...but...i dont know

anyway i have been thinking about this for a period of time and i thought it is an interesting theory so just to wanna see what other people think of it. thanks for readin my non sense ahahha

[jb9]

SSH assumes most of your opponents are generally not playing very good strategy or paying much attention to your play, so if they all are, then a different strategy is needed to beat them (perhaps Hold Em Poker for Advanced Players).

You could bluff someone with A high if (1) he thinks you wouldn't do this, (2) he will fold bottom pair because he thinks you wouldn't bluff with A high, and (3) you think he has bottom pair.

However, if your opponent is following SSH strategy he will call you even if he suspects he is beat if the pot is large, so this bluff would only work in small pots (and thus has to work more often to be worthwhile). Also, you won't be able to do this too often because he will become suspicious that you may be bluffing and eventually will call you down or raise.

On the other hand, once he catches you bluffing with A high on the river, he will be more likely to pay off your value bets in the future.

If everyone is playing good basic strategy, then the metagame becomes much more important.

[jb9]

deleted by jb9

[wutevahung]

ya, i think my point is that
is there EVER a "perfect play" in poker?
i mean i know it depends on situation, people, and many other things
but then since if it is mathmatically correct then sometimes it wont b psychologically correct and... anyway, because i m very into the game of Go (a chinese board game which is very very complicated, people can seriously spend a life time on it and be a mediocre player), and i often relate go to poker, but in go sometimes i just think there no such thing as "the perfect move" (if you know the game you might understand what i mean), and i just want to know if you guys think there are perfect plays for poker i guess. would appreciate any thoughts [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[jb9]

[ QUOTE ]
is there EVER a "perfect play" in poker?

[/ QUOTE ]

Always raise with the nuts when you are last to act on the river.

Otherwise it depends on the situation (although there are a great many plays which are usually the best for most situations -- like raising AA preflop in limit games).

[apaugust]

Books arn't meant to teach you exactly how to play all of the time. They teach you concepts and you must learn how to apply them in different situations. If you bluff with AK on the river because you know everyone will fold, it is not a -ev move turned into a +ev one, it is just simply a +ev move.

[Danenania]

[ QUOTE ]
Always raise with the nuts when you are last to act on the river.


[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't always the best play.

[jb9]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Always raise with the nuts when you are last to act on the river.


[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't always the best play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Example?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Always raise with the nuts when you are last to act on the river.


[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't always the best play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Example?

[/ QUOTE ]

You have at least one thinking opponent at the table that is emotionally unstable. If by simply calling the bet and not raising with the nuts, you will drive said player into confusion and in turn he will both bet worse hands into you allowing you to call more bluffs, and he will call you down more thinking you really don't know what you are doing. This would earn you much more than a single BB.

[Danenania]

Oh you said last to act which I guess means no overcalls. Nevermind then.