88 gets raised

[Redd]

Villain has played 5 hands with our Hero at this point. He's called four of the five hands preflop and appears to be loose but I have no idea how aggressive he is yet.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero...

[aK13]

Over + clubs + no redraws = GTFO.

[Redd]

[ QUOTE ]
Over + clubs + no redraws = GTFO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did end up dumping right there. But wouldn't you say that the two clubs make it a closer decision rather than a more difficult one? Their presence adds a ton of hands that Villain would raise here that I'm ahead of.

[aK13]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Over + clubs + no redraws = GTFO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did end up dumping right there. But wouldn't you say that the two clubs make it a closer decision rather than a more difficult one? Their presence adds a ton of hands that Villain would raise here that I'm ahead of.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it was HU, you might try a call-flop, bet/fold turn maneuver. However, MP2 overcalling in the middle is troubling.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
Villain has played 5 hands with our Hero at this point. He's called four of the five hands preflop and appears to be loose but I have no idea how aggressive he is yet.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero...

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding the flop is fine. If he only had a flush draw and you folded the best hand, that's okay. Sometimes you fold the best hand. Folding now, however, saves you the 5 SB (or more) it will cost you to make him show it to you. Take a note of it, and move on to the next hand.

(By the way, if he has a flush draw and an overcard against you, you're not a substantial favorite to win the pot anyway. The pot isn't very large, so you're not giving up a huge amount -- don't forget that you've got the donk calling with something that probably has at least an overcard to you, too.)

[LoaferGee12]

Anyone else just call this preflop? Out of position middle pair against 2 limpers. I guess it's close either way.

[detruncate]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess it's close either way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. Close. Probably depends on the table texture for me. I don't mind going after the button if there's a reasonable possibility of improving our chances of taking down the pot via a continuation bet when overcards flop, but we do kick ourselves when it goes 4-5 way and we don't have absolute position.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
By the way, if he has a flush draw and an overcard against you, you're not a substantial favorite to win the pot anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

I should say not:

903 games 0.005 secs 180,600 games/sec

Board: Jc 7c 4h
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 37.7630 % [ 00.38 00.00 ] { 8h8d }
Hand 2: 48.3942 % [ 00.48 00.00 ] { Ac5c }
Hand 3: 13.8427 % [ 00.14 00.00 ] { QdTh }

If one of them is slow-playing a jack, you drop to like 6%.

[Redd]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone else just call this preflop? Out of position middle pair against 2 limpers. I guess it's close either way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, this is about the cutoff for me. If I had had one more limper or one less rank of pair, I wouldn't have raised it; I've kinda taken a page from DD's book with my PP pf play.

IMHO raising with a PP that has some UI showdown potential can't ever be that much of a mistake, because there's a good chance at least one person will fold an overcard to your pair, and more likely you'll get a few overcards out.