Plan B: [censored] Iraq

bobman0330 · #1 08-12-2005, 07:35 PM

This is more in the nature of a rant than a serious post, so keep that in mind. I am making no long term commitment to the ideas expressed herein.

What the [censored] is wrong with Iraqis? What is going on inside these people's heads? I understand they've had a turbulent history, ethnic division, blah blah blah. So? Who cares?

I read a news article just now about how the Sunnis are threatening to veto any constitution that provides for federalism. Give me a god damn break. Your minority ethnic group has been brutally dominating your nation for the last 40 or so years. Most current domestic terrorism is from your ethnic group and you're not doing a god damn thing. You were too stupid to participate constructively in the process by voting, and now you're being obstructionist when people insist that a country with radical cultural divisions should be a federal state. Who cares? All the oil is in the Sunni areas anyways. Form a Sunniraq and let them be poor.

As for the rest of them, arms are flowing across the Iranian border and being used to blow up their policemen and children, and all they want to do is curse the American soldiers protecting them and cozy up to the murderous mullahs. Real smart. Maybe if these Shiites quit listening to their preachers for long enough to read a book about history or political science they might realize that they shouldn't institute [censored] sharia or become close with Iran.

How hard is it to write a constitution anyways. 200 years ago when there was no democracy, maybe. But now, you have about 80 models, with exhaustive commentary. Let's be honest. Creating a fair government is easy. What's going on now is that Iraqis don't have enough patriotism or sense to stop gunning for cheap political points and just write a workable constitution that will prevent a civil war.

The Kurds seem OK, but we never hear anything about them. I think they wouldn't mind a civil war. They would just take Kirkuk and secede. Good luck to them.

All that being the case, if these morons can't come up with a constitution by the deadline, let's pack up and leave. Bomb the [censored] out of Iran's nuclear program on the way out, and call it a day and a lesson learned. If anyone tries to give us [censored] about oil embargoes or anything, bomb them too.

I think it's a fine plan.

Cyrus · #2 08-12-2005, 07:51 PM

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If these morons can't come up with a constitution by the deadline, let's pack up and leave [Iraq]

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But that's a damn fine plan. Seriously.

MagicMan08 · #3 08-12-2005, 08:15 PM

I agree

ACPlayer · #4 08-12-2005, 11:17 PM

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All the oil is in the Sunni areas anyways.

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Once you understand this correctly, you will know why the Sunni's are worried.

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and all they want to do is curse the American soldiers protecting them

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Once you understand this statement correctly you will realize that protecting is an incorrect verb here unless you put it in inverted commas (quotes).

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Sunnis are threatening to veto any constitution that provides for federalism .....
...

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Those are the rules of the game.

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The Kurds seem OK

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Keep an eye on this space over the next 10 plus years.

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gunning for cheap political points

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Democracy at work -- for examples see any BGC post.

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they might realize that they shouldn't institute [censored] sharia or become close with Iran.

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Ummm, why not? They may like Sharia. Perhaps they can take NAFTA and make a similar I(ran)I(raq)FTA, we should be for free trade right?

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if these morons can't come up with a constitution by the deadline, let's pack up and leave

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What that Paragon of Good Sense -- Cyrus said applies.

bobman0330 · #5 08-12-2005, 11:59 PM

Actually, the bit about oil being in Sunni areas was a typo right? It's all with the Shiites.

The rest of your post was magnificently obscure and unenlightening. I'm assuming that was the effect you were aiming for, so well done.

ACPlayer · #6 08-13-2005, 12:12 AM

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Actually, the bit about oil being in Sunni areas was a typo right?

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I dont know - can't read your mind. You tell me was it a typo or did you mean what you wrote about the oil in Sunni lands?

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The rest of your post was magnificently obscure and unenlightening. I'm assuming that was the effect you were aiming for, so well done.

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You are quite welcome. Of course, I will assume that the "un" in the first sentence is a typo. Can never tell with your posts. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

BZ_Zorro · #7 08-13-2005, 12:55 AM

Great reply AC

To the OP:
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Let's be honest. Creating a fair government is easy.

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That depends on what you have to work with.

Cyrus · #8 08-13-2005, 03:05 AM

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Actually, the bit about oil being in Sunni areas was a typo [al]right? It's all with the Shiites.

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FYI, the oil in Iraq is not "all" with any tribe, be it Kurds, Sunnis or Shias. There are areas with more oil (Shia, Kurd) and areas with less oil (Sunni) but nowhere is it oil-dry. And, by the way, when we talk about, for example, a "Sunni area" we should not understand anything except that it's a mainly Sunni-ihnabited area. The West has made the same mistake in Bosnia because the West wants clear, neat pictures.

From the D.O.E. analysis :

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Iraq contains 115 billion barrels of proven oil reserves, the third largest in the world (behind Saudi Arabia and Canada), concentrated overwhelmingly (65 percent or more) in southern Iraq. [However] only about 10 percent of the country has been explored. Some analysts believe that deep oil-bearing formations located mainly in the vast Western Desert region could yield large additional oil resources (possibly another 100 billion barrels or more), but have not been explored. Other analysts, such as the U.S. Geological Survey, are not as optimistic, with median estimates for additional oil reserves closer to 45 billion barrels.
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The southern Rumaila field ... extends a short distance into Kuwaiti territory, has around 660 wells.
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The northern Kirkuk field, first discovered in 1927, forms the basis for northern Iraqi oil production.

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Another major Iraqi oil field is the 11-billion barrel East Baghdad field, which came online in April 1989. Prior to the war, this centrally-located field currently produced around 50,000 bbl/d of heavy [crude] oil as well as 30 million cubic feet per day of associated natural gas.

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lehighguy · #9 08-13-2005, 05:03 AM

Of late I have begun to lement the Iraq war. It seems Iraq is going to become a little colony of Iran. There has been no serious attempt to turn it into a constitutional democracy. Instead of doing what is needed to make Iraq a stable country over the long run, US policy seems aimed at little more then getting US troops out quickly or appease the electorate at home.

I don't think there was any fundamental flaw with the idea of democratizing Iraq. I think the objective was achievable. Rather, it is the sheer incompetence shown in carrying out that objective that has made it impossible. I should have seen it comming. I normally post on this board saying how the government is incompetent and can't be trusted to do anything right. How then could I expect government to take on the costly, long, and diffucult task of building a constitutional democracy half-way around the world.

Perhaps if we had the wise king from Plato's writings he could have done it. Instead we have special interest groups, an electorate only concerned with the short term, a divided legislative body, and a president that appears to know nothing about what he is doing.

Government is bad at doing everything, and it's bad at doing this.

Maybe it is time to cut our loses and install a new dictator so there isn't a civil war. I feel like putting Saddam back in charge, it really would be what they deserve. If the Iraqis didn't allow the insurgency thier lives would be much better. There would be no deaths, no violence, no brown outs, no lawlessness. They've created thier own hell hole just to get revenge or stick it to whitee. Well I hope thier revenge was sweet enough to be worth sacrificing thier own futures.

Well whatever, I'm going away for three weeks so don't expect any replies on this post.

ACPlayer · #10 08-13-2005, 06:17 AM

Better late to the party Lehighguy. Now if the other lemming like cheer leaders would learn as well, perhaps theleap of the cliff may not do as much damage.

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I don't think there was any fundamental flaw with the idea of democratizing Iraq.

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I however dont agree with this. I believe that you cannot force freedom on a people, which is what was attempted. Actually this is not quite true either, once it became clear that the proffered reasons to go to war were a figment of an overheated, emotional imagination, the democracy reason was trotted out. In any case, freedom, like all other valuable things to be treasured and handled with great care must be earned. IMO.