Marginal draw multiway - Fix it

JrJordan · #1 08-09-2005, 03:10 AM

UTG is normally loose passive and I haven't seen a limp reraise before. Don't know if it's legit yet or a random attempt to build a big pot. UTG is slightly loose passive, but will get tricky with a c/r once in awhile. MP is most loose passive of the table. Thinks checkraising is unethical, and usually has the goods when he donk bets.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG 3-bets, MP calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, MP bets, Hero raises, SB calls, UTG calls, MP calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, MP bets, Hero calls, SB folds, UTG folds.

River: (12.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14.50 BB

FWIW, if I had the Td instead of the Qd I'd probably fold to MP's donk bet. I would also fold to a c/r anywhere behind me on the turn.

I'm not sure I like my flop raise. My goal was to hopefully clear some marginal outs in a big pot like this, but against a loose passive bunch like this I don't think facing the field with 2bets will make them any more likely to fold.

spydog · #2 08-09-2005, 04:31 AM

Looks good except the river. Raise and fold to a 3-bet from the loose-passive. You've given no indication that you have a flush, so he is likely to bet a smaller flush on the river.

nervous · #3 08-09-2005, 04:42 AM

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Looks good except the river. Raise and fold to a 3-bet from the loose-passive. You've given no indication that you have a flush, so he is likely to bet a smaller flush on the river.

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I would really want to raise this river, however MP's play is very consistent with the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and it would really suck to get 3bet.

/edit What do you think about a flop call?

JrJordan · #4 08-09-2005, 09:46 AM

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Looks good except the river. Raise and fold to a 3-bet from the loose-passive. You've given no indication that you have a flush, so he is likely to bet a smaller flush on the river.

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Tempting, but against this player I think a call really is the best plan. He's not bluffing about having anything but the flush, so the only value I get in raising is by having a lower flush call. His donk bet on the flop and turn suggest that it's a higher diamond draw K or A. A ten is certainly possible (hence the call down), but I feel at this point I definitely feel I'm behind more than 50% of the time.

#5 08-09-2005, 10:26 AM

Concering the raise PF is a must. Yes, u are giving them better pot odds to chase. But as long as u are in position and have a chance to eliminate players with most likely the best hand. U should do it PF.

jba · #6 08-09-2005, 11:28 AM

looks good.

Derek in NYC · #7 08-09-2005, 11:33 AM

I'd also raise the flop, both for the purpose of testing the UTG's limp-reraise, cleaning up any outs such as UTG limp-reraising with AK, and potentially getting a freecard.

Against an unknown, I call the turn and river also with the third-nut flush, but I expect to be good here infrequently. Against this opponent, assuming a good read, I think you can fold the river. (Some might say, why call the turn if you're going to fold the river, but a check by the villain after betting the turn will happen pretty often that you might be able to get to showdown just by calling the turn).

EDITED: For those who recommend capping the flop, I dont like doing this against a limp-reraiser. You run into AA, KK, or AK very frequently in this situation. The only conceivable benefit to capping is to try and take the initiative into the flop, but in a pot his large, youre going to have to showdown a winner to scoop the pot.

jba · #8 08-09-2005, 11:48 AM

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EDITED: For those who recommend capping the flop

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started drinkin a bit early today, did we?

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]