HE player just learning O8...how'd I do in this hand?

Harv72b · #1 08-05-2005, 02:04 AM

This is all really basic I'm sure, so forgive me ahead of time for what will probably be a boring thread. I just got around to reading the O8 chapter in SS2 and learned that there is actually a right & wrong way to play the game...so I'm looking for validation that I really did pick something up from the book, or of course helpful criticism if/where I played this less than optimally.

The dreaded "no reads" applies here.

PokerStars 0.02/0.04 Omaha/8 (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. MP2 posts a blind of $0.02.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 (poster) checks, MP3 calls, Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (14 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, Button folds, SB calls.

River: (16.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+2 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB 3-bets, UTG+2 folds, Hero caps, SB calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 29.50 BB
Main Pot: 29.50 BB, between Hero, SB and BB.

Questions:

1) This is a clear preflop raise, correct?
2) No point in raising the flop or turn?
3) I've got the 2nd nuts for high and low on the river...just keep pumping the pot confident that I'm at least taking half the pot, right?

Thanks for your time & patience. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

IronDragon1 · #2 08-05-2005, 02:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This is all really basic I'm sure, so forgive me ahead of time for what will probably be a boring thread. I just got around to reading the O8 chapter in SS2 and learned that there is actually a right & wrong way to play the game...so I'm looking for validation that I really did pick something up from the book, or of course helpful criticism if/where I played this less than optimally.

The dreaded "no reads" applies here.

PokerStars 0.02/0.04 Omaha/8 (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. MP2 posts a blind of $0.02.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 (poster) checks, MP3 calls, Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (14 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, Button folds, SB calls.

River: (16.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+2 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB 3-bets, UTG+2 folds, Hero caps, SB calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 29.50 BB
Main Pot: 29.50 BB, between Hero, SB and BB.

Questions:

1) This is a clear preflop raise, correct?
2) No point in raising the flop or turn?
3) I've got the 2nd nuts for high and low on the river...just keep pumping the pot confident that I'm at least taking half the pot, right?

Thanks for your time & patience. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never played such low stakes (though my recent play suggests I probably should forever) but IMHO

1) Yes-this is a ridiculous multiway hand; no one is folding whatever junk they have and you need to get that value in there.
2) Yes-I like calling. If you raise you'd really hate to get three bet (which you probably would have) knowing by now you're most likely going to get quartered as the likeliehood of a straight 6 being good for high diminishes
3) If he has quads God bless him-as it was I assume he has A3xx, as the presence of stragglers leads me to believe that someone else had the other stray 3

#3 08-05-2005, 02:39 AM

I'm pretty new to Omaha 8 myself so take my comments with a grain of salt.

The pre-flop raise looks fine, using late position to get an extra bet out of those who've limped in already when you have one of the best hands pre-flop. To have the button, SB and BB call is icing on the cake.

An argument can be made for a raise on the flop, since you have the nut low draw, with the 4 giving you the wheel for low and a six high straight for high. A paired board is generally good news for your AA as you aces up may be enough to win high sometimes, though to be fair in this case with 7 players somebody must already have trip 3's or a small full so you're still drawing for high.

On the turn you probably still have positive equity in the pot but are still drawing, calling is what I'd do as well.

On the river you've made top full, just hammer it like you did and hope to take half the pot for high. By the way I generally treat top full as the nuts for high if there's a low possible, you will run into quads in this game from time to time but it's rare enough that capping the river with it is the best play. By the way, if you're getting that much action on the river, your second nut low is obviously no good, hopefully both the other players held 2-4 and/or an underfull.

Harv72b · #4 08-05-2005, 02:56 AM

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I've never played such low stakes (though my recent play suggests I probably should forever) but IMHO

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I waivered over even posting the hand because .02/.04 is a little embarrassing. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

I'm just treating O8 as a side hobby at this point, so I figured it was best to play at a level that was absolutely meaningless monetarily. Obviously I hope to learn the game well enough that I'm comfortable "graduating" to microlimits. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Thanks for the comments!

Burdzthewurd · #5 08-05-2005, 03:41 AM

Looks well-played to me in every spot.

I disagree with one of the posters saying to pump the flop, with that many callers preflop, it's unlikely no one has a 3, and likely someone flopped a boat, you don't want to drive everyone else out of the pot with a probably quarter situation for low. nh sir

Harv72b · #6 08-05-2005, 03:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
By the way, if you're getting that much action on the river, your second nut low is obviously no good, hopefully both the other players held 2-4 and/or an underfull.

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I was expecting one of them to turn over the 24, at least, but I wound up scooping. BB had Q3 for the underfull (no low), and SB had an A3456 low.

sy_or_bust · #7 08-05-2005, 08:07 AM

Questions:

1) This is a clear preflop raise, correct?
Absolutely. Your hand plays awesome against a field or shorthanded, and you'll find that low limit players cold-call in O8 far more than HE. For this reason weaker AA hands, like AA4sT, are typically unplayable unless you can ensure a shorthanded situation. Those hands cost a lot because they make pay-off hands both ways in a multiway pot.

2) No point in raising the flop or turn?
No, raise the flop for sure. You have a nut low draw against 4 microlimit callers (and 2 behind), which is a great situation. Your opponents will draw to non-nut lows, etc., and even if another A2 is out you are in fine shape. If you can get the Button with a raise, you can check behind on this turn card. And you have high chances - 2 aces to the ~nuts, and 3 fours to a solid hand. As games get tougher (and your opponents tighter), the flop raise becomes less and less mandatory, but never bad.

3) I've got the 2nd nuts for high and low on the river...just keep pumping the pot confident that I'm at least taking half the pot, right?
Most likely 3/4, sure, but this is dangerous thinking if you take it too far in other situations. If you have 2 good but not great non-nut hands, you're typically in a call/fold situation - if you are drawing, you sometimes should simply fold.

Anyway, you played the river perfect

BTW: Don't play .02/.04 again. If you know basic basic O/8 strategy, you are a winning player at the .5/1 fishpool.

#8 08-05-2005, 09:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]

I waivered over even posting the hand because .02/.04 is a little embarrassing. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

I'm just treating O8 as a side hobby at this point, so I figured it was best to play at a level that was absolutely meaningless monetarily. Obviously I hope to learn the game well enough that I'm comfortable "graduating" to microlimits. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Thanks for the comments!

[/ QUOTE ]

So? Everyone's gotta start somewhere [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Of course, I'm trying to build a bankroll from freerolls... lol, currently playing $.11 O8 SNG's, lol. (talk about soft, hehe).

#9 08-05-2005, 11:02 AM

The hand is definitely well played as plenty of people have pointed out. The key though is whether or not you took all these things into consideration when making your decisions during the hand. Were you aware of all the possiblities and situations that they listed? If so, bravo.

GooperMC · #10 08-05-2005, 11:46 AM

I like it on every street.

[ QUOTE ]
1) This is a clear preflop raise, correct?

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Pre flop it is almost always the correct play to get as much money in with AA2 as you can. The backup low and the ss make this a must raise

[ QUOTE ]
2) No point in raising the flop or turn?

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With this many players seeing the flop I think your EV for the high portion of the flop is very small. I haven't run the calculation but I am pretty sure that you don't have enough EV to initiate fresh money into the pot so calling is best. Also you want the two people behind you calling and you don't want someone with a 3 to 3 bet which could chase out even more players.

[ QUOTE ]
3) I've got the 2nd nuts for high and low on the river...just keep pumping the pot confident that I'm at least taking half the pot, right?

[/ QUOTE ]
HU anytime that you have a good 2 way hand you need to jam. In this case you have a great high and a very good low so there is very little chance of you getting scooped and a decent chance that you will scoop. Put as much money in as you can.

Very well played on every street.

I agree with the other posters that if you feel like you can successfully play O8 and have the bankroll your should move up to .5/1 because it is an aquarium. However if you want to get some cheap experience .02/.04 isn't a bad place to be. Play 1K hands there, absolutely destroy the game, then move up.