grb137 presents - you make the call!

[grb137]

Everyone play along now! - Vote and post why you voted the way you did. I'll post how the hand developed in increments.

7 Card Stud High ($20/$40), Ante $2, Bring-In $5 (hand converter)

3rd Street - (0.80 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 7: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___completes___calls
Seat 8: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (7.05 SB)

Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 7: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

5th Street - (5.03 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___[????]
Seat 7: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[kschellenger]

I raise simply to find out what he has. Likely, if he reraises he likely has aces up and then you can call down. If he simply calls you can then decide if you have the best hand on 6th, which you likely do if he just called.

[bobman0330]

I disagree. Why pay for information you can't use? A better reason to raise is to knock out the third player. If the villain is likely to have a buried pair for aces up, then letting the third player in isn't as bad, since you have to improve anyways. If the villain might have started with a 3-flush, then I think you need to raise.

[kschellenger]

[ QUOTE ]

Why pay for information you can't use?


[/ QUOTE ]

You can use it if your hand improves.

[frappeboy]

This is definitely a raise because you want to make sure to knock out the guy behind you. Another point is most of the time the guy with open aces will call and check to you on 6th and you can take a free card here, unless you improve. So it really doesn't cost you anything more by raising, and you might even get an extra bet if you improve 6th street.

If he showed aggression on 3rd your play would probably be to fold in this spot though because he could have kings or queens in the hole in which case you are in really bad shape.

[Andy B]

I think frappeboy has this right. The guy with the other Aces has done nothing but call, so I would guess that he probably didn't start out with a pair in the hole. It is desirable to get the third man out, and as frappeboy pointed out, raising probably won't cost you anything.

[grb137]

I have to say that at the time, I felt the decision was pretty easy. Now, having reflected, I'm wondering if maybe this is a rather close decision:

Seat 3 either
1) has a pocket pair or
2) started with a 3flush and took another card on 4th since the pot was so big at this point.

At BEST, seat 3 and I are pretty close to tied for the lead each having aces.

With this in mind..if seat 7 has made Js up by this point, he's probably going to it call down given the implied odds the pot is giving him (he's probably pretty confident all three of us will call down to the river). If this were the case, I could very well be raising with the worst hand of the three.

Alternatively, if he only has naked Js, he may very well fold for 1 bet thinking he's up against two hands with aces. I know I would fold in that situation.

Another consideration here is the fact that my highest kicker (a jack) is fairly dead since seat 7 presumably has two of the remaining three. This leaves me with two relatively weak kickers, duece and 8, that I'll probably have to hit in order to win. Even if I were to hit either of these, I might still lose if seat 3's got a medium pocket pair like 10s or 9s.

So, maybe Bob is right - I'm going to have to hit another pair, preferably that 8, to have a chance at this pot, so maybe leaving seat 7 to draw to two pair isn't that big of a problem -- particularly since his chances of catching trip Js is extremely low at this point.

----

Let's think about seat 3 for a second, consider what he might have, and determine if he played correctly.

- Suppose he has a pocket pair - would he be correct to call when the Js completed? When I reraised and the J called, would he have been correct to call again?

- Same questions for three flush - would he have been correct to call when the completion? The raise?