Final table ATo in the BB

Quercus · #1 08-04-2005, 01:49 PM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t600 (7 handed) converter

Button (t17288)
SB (t12156)
Hero (t13980)
UTG (t11481)
MP1 (t9485)
MP2 (t7560)
CO (t8050)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
4 folds, Button raises to t2000, 1 fold, Hero calls t1400.

Flop: (t4300) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t4000, Button raises to t8000, Button calls t3980.

Standard?

suited_ace · #2 08-04-2005, 02:25 PM

I don't like calling in this spot. I think it's a push or fold, and I'm more likely to push. You can make him fold a lot of hands that have you beat, and even if you get called you have a good amount of outs.

jt1 · #3 08-04-2005, 02:35 PM

What is the pay out stucture? What's your read on villian? No good analysis can be given without both those bits of info.

But nonetheless, I will say that to me it's not a a clear push or fold since t4000 is still enough of a chip stack to come back from.

Quercus · #4 08-04-2005, 02:38 PM

Hmm... converter messed up... I actually went all-in after he raised me on the flop.

Quercus · #5 08-04-2005, 02:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What is the pay out stucture? What's your read on villian?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pay out structure is standard - lion's share of the money is in the top 3 spots. (2.4/1.8/1.2 at the top, falling to 0.3 at the bottom).

I have seen nothing special from villain - though he seems to be at least competant. I final table this tournament fairly often and don't recognize him. Some of the other folks I do recognize seem to know him, so I don't think he's a stranger to this deep in the tourny.

beetyjoose · #6 08-04-2005, 02:55 PM

insta-push

jt1 · #7 08-04-2005, 03:08 PM

I still see arguments for all 3 actions on the flop. His raise, though the minimum, is still a big move, imo. That leaves him with just t7000. It would have been much safer and possibly smarter to fold a pair: I give him credit for a pair and your t3500 raise is likely to not be small enough to scare him off.

Does anyone go all-in pre-flop? You win t2900 and take the chip lead if he folds. Does anyone fold on the flop? Villian is the last guy Hero wants to do battle with.

Pardon my ignorance, but does 7th place get any money here?

curtains · #8 08-04-2005, 04:11 PM

I would check raise allin on the flop. When you have just a draw, you usually don't want to let him be the one to move allin if you can help it, and okay his raise to 8000 is as close to moving allin as he can get, he is almost surely going to call for 5000 more.

However if you check, he bets 3000 or so and then you move allin, you have a lot of folding equity most of the time. Also most players bet automatically in such situations, especially with a larger stack than yours.

durron597 · #9 08-04-2005, 04:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would check raise allin on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think with these stack sizes and pot size it's better to just lead out allin. Even if he does bet only 3k into the 4k pot, he's getting better than 2:1 to call you.

Why not just lead out push?

curtains · #10 08-04-2005, 04:19 PM

Getting 2-1 to call me means nothing when he bets the flop with zero. The point is we get a few extra chips when he doesnt have anything. Most real hands he will end up calling anyway, whether we open push or not. If he ends up feeling priced in with KQ and the king of diamonds, this is of course not a terrible thing.

It's hard to envision a hand that would fold if I open allin, but would call a check raise allin on this board. This is especially true as opening allin generally looks so weak.

Anyway the pot has 4300 in it and we have 12k. If the pot had like 6000-7000 I'd prefer opening allin, however in this situation I believe checkraising is better as the bet we will face usually isn't going to be pot committing.

Opening allin isn't terrible however. The most important thing is that we give our opponent the chance to fold. Moving allin does that, but I prefer to be greedy here and checkraise allin. They will usually fold with about the same frequency whereas a good percentage of the time we will make a few extra thousand chips on the hand when they have nothing.

Also if they check behind it doesnt hurt us that much, as they usually either had a hand they were calling with on the flop, or they had basically nothing and thus have very few outs on the turn.