Foxwoods 20/40: KQo Play-Along

W. Deranged · #1 07-30-2005, 10:10 PM

This is the second of the two particularly thought-provoking hands I played at the Woods yesterday. I want to post this one in play-along fashion because there is a bunch of weird stuff going on and my friends (all excellent players) and I have all advocated different lines for how to play the hand.

Foxwoods 20/40 (7 handed)

I'm in the CO with K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

The player two to my right (Hijack-1) is a bit of a pre-flop and flop lag but probably the second-best player at the table (behind yours truly... no other 2+2ers anywhere to be seen) and plays pretty well on the big bet streets. He will open-raise quite light in middle/late position.

Hijack is a very, very big fish. Giant calling station. Calls to the river with extremely marginal holdings. Only raises near nut hands. Doesn't ever raise pre-flop. Will willingly call multiple bets on the flop with weak/non-existent draws, single overcards, etc... Sees 80-90% of flops.

Button is a very loose and bad playing old dude, who oscillates between laggish overplaying and tight-weakness with no apparent pattern. He appears uninterested in the hand he has picked up behind me.

SB is a tight-weak bitch. He can maybe play a little, but has the horrible tendency of badly underplaying hands. Earlier flopped trip jacks and folded face up to a single river bet when an A hit, complaining about how the dealer "put up a two-outer."

Pre-flop: folded to Hijack-1 who raises, Hijack calls, Deranged...?

What's the play pre-flop

Entity · #2 07-30-2005, 10:12 PM

I'm not going to be able to provide much of an interesting play for the hand, because I fold here.

W. Deranged · #3 07-30-2005, 10:16 PM

To clarify, everyone should note that KQ will be WELL ahead of the range of hands that both Hijack-1 will open-raise with and Hijack will cold-call with.

I'm interested in any arguments for a pre-flop fold, but with position and table make-up it was quite clear to me at the time that folding here would be giving up too much value.

brettbrettr · #4 07-30-2005, 10:42 PM

BB read?

shant · #5 07-30-2005, 10:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I fold here.

[/ QUOTE ]

chief444 · #6 07-30-2005, 10:56 PM

Fold. Not a very interesting play along. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

chief444 · #7 07-30-2005, 10:57 PM

OK, if you're that sure than 3-bet. Flop?

chesspain · #8 07-30-2005, 10:59 PM

I'm folding here as well, since I don't allow my ego to become so bloated that I'm coldcalling or reraising with KQo against a decent player's raise and another player's coldcall.

Entity · #9 07-31-2005, 04:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
To clarify, everyone should note that KQ will be WELL ahead of the range of hands that both Hijack-1 will open-raise with and Hijack will cold-call with.

I'm interested in any arguments for a pre-flop fold, but with position and table make-up it was quite clear to me at the time that folding here would be giving up too much value.

[/ QUOTE ]

KQo will never be WELL ahead of the raiser's range of opening hands. Slightly ahead, maybe. But against a slight LAG you're never that far ahead, he's good postflop and likes to spew chips, and you're never going to feel all *that* comfortable with KQo multiway for multiple bets against him.

Rob

ThomasPHoolery · #10 07-31-2005, 10:14 AM

Having played foxwoods mid limit games often in the past, and having had these types of tables, I cannot see how folding is an option. Online 2/4 or 3/6 I fold without much thought, but at these types of games, the play is so unbelievably bad preflop and on the flop (2-4 3-6 Vegas live games often play beter than 10-20 and 20-40 foxwoods tables on early streets, and I'm not exaggerating). With that said, I think calling and raising becomes the debate.
In thinking about it more, I like a call here.
You're not buying position with a raise since you already have it, and, to a small extent, raising here looses you a bit of hand protection value on the flop. If this is like most mid-limit foxwoods game, if you put in the last pre-flop raise, it's pretty much autochecked to you, which in a sense will put you in early position with this hand, the first to act on what amounts to the second flop hand. By calling, you force the preflop raiser to take the flop aggression and set yourself up in excellent position to take control of the hand on the flop, and possibly get it three way, the PFR, the fish and you.

In summary, I call in this specific situation, w/ the intent of raising/ 3 betting a K high or Q high flop.