What to do with this pair o' 5's?

Ortho · #1 07-29-2005, 11:32 AM

I don't have much of a read on Villain, though he doesn't have trash like a weak ace or something. My read is that he has a pair or AK/AQ/AJ, maybe AT or A9s or something.

I understand that I'm going to have to push or fold. I was of course willing to play against overcards, but I couldn't work out on the spot whether his chances of having big cards made this a good or bad call.

Afterwards, I'm thinking AA-66 (54), AK (16), AQ(16), AJ(16), maybe 16 more for weaker aces, KQ, etc, is like 54/64, though I don't know. If it's 50/50 then I'm putting in 1395 to win a pot with 2865 in it (just about even money).

Comments on the range I'm putting him on here or the fold appreciated.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (7 handed) converter

Hero (t1545)
UTG (t1180)
MP1 (t1480)
MP2 (t1730)
CO (t2615)
Button (t2975)
SB (t1975)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, CO raises to t500, 3 folds.

Final Pot: t725

([b]edit:[b] I corrected the terrible pot-odds mistake.)

Runner Runner · #2 07-29-2005, 11:50 AM

First off, you are not getting 2 to 1, you are getting just over 1 to 1 because you will be sticking half of the money in the pot. Second, you may be putting him on too narrow of a range of hands. That being said, if your hand range is correct you must pass. You are looking at a coinflip at best and don't discount that he may have an overpair.

I think the only way you can consider a push is if you can put him on a wider range of hands which includes ace, rag hands, and there is at least some chance that you think he will make the mistake of folding to your push. If there is no chance that he folds to your push (he will be getting 2 to 1) then you should pass and look for spots where you have some fold equity.

Ortho · #3 07-29-2005, 11:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
First off, you are not getting 2 to 1, you are getting just over 1 to 1 because you will be sticking half of the money in the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, yes. This is terrible! I actually figured this pretty close to correctly at the table then make a howler like this afterwards. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
Second, you may be putting him on too narrow of a range of hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

What would you put him on here? I'm sorry I don't have much more to offer than "he's a 6.5 player who hasn't gotten out of line and so at least thinks he has something." AA-TT, obviously. 99-77-sure. AK/AQ/AJ-yes, I think so. AT-I don't know. KQ? I'm ruling out stuff like KJ, but is this correct? Do you think that I can put an average 6.5 player on stuff like Axs here?

[ QUOTE ]
If there is no chance that he folds to your push (he will be getting 2 to 1) then you should pass and look for spots where you have some fold equity.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. At the time I didn't think there was any chance of him folding. His odds are too good.

brimstone1 · #4 07-29-2005, 12:05 PM

For me, this is an immediate fold.
150 blinds, 1500 chips.
Certainly not desperate enough to take a 55/45 coinflip.

Basically, with 55, I'd rather be the one pushing than the one calling.

Maulik · #5 07-29-2005, 12:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
For me, this is an immediate fold.
150 blinds, 1500 chips.
Certainly not desperate enough to take a 55/45 coinflip.

Basically, with 55, I'd rather be the one pushing than the one calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

Furthermore, you still don't need to push in this spot. If folded to you in SB, you can push into the BB.

=\

pooh74 · #6 07-29-2005, 12:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't have much of a read on Villain, though he doesn't have trash like a weak ace or something. My read is that he has a pair or AK/AQ/AJ, maybe AT or A9s or something.

I understand that I'm going to have to push or fold. I was of course willing to play against overcards, but I couldn't work out on the spot whether his chances of having big cards made this a good or bad call.

Afterwards, I'm thinking AA-66 (54), AK (16), AQ(16), AJ(16), maybe 16 more for weaker aces, KQ, etc, is like 54/64, though I don't know. If it's 50/50 then I'm putting in 1395 to win a pot with 2865 in it (just about even money).

Comments on the range I'm putting him on here or the fold appreciated.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (7 handed) converter

Hero (t1545)
UTG (t1180)
MP1 (t1480)
MP2 (t1730)
CO (t2615)
Button (t2975)
SB (t1975)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, CO raises to t500, 3 folds.

Final Pot: t725

([b]edit:[b] I corrected the terrible pot-odds mistake.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Your push will make a call almost mandatory by him, unless he was on a flat steal or he puts you on a great hand and lets it go. One issue here is how likely to you think it is that he has an over PP? Being that likelyhood that he folds is 10% or less, you need to decide what your odds are when he calls (note: not "if"). More than half the time he'll have two overs, and maybe 30-40% of the time he'll have a PP which 80-90% of the time will be higher than yours.

When reraising with my whole stack, I like to know I have "some" FE because based on his possible cards here, I dont think this is good spot and +EV bc of the poss of an overpair...add to that, you still have FE if you fold and can find much better spots....you're not desperate yet!

Edit: dont know why this is in bold