Session Post 1 - My Preflop Play

#1 07-25-2005, 02:10 PM

In trying not to spam the board with new threads, I thought I'd collect all my comments about my preflop play here.

Since Greg's original post neglected to mention that I posted a blind in hand 63, I would be especially interested in hearing what people think of calling the additional bet with a weaker hand but good pot odds and position.

Hand 1: -------------------------------------

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 raises, 1 fold, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, Hero folds.

I was honestly surprised that there's any debate about this one. While we're getting good pot odds, we can't really talk about our "equity" in this hand because the vast majority of the time we're not going to see the river. We're really looking at our odds of flopping a big hand, which differs significantly from our pot equity.

Hand 14: -------------------------------------

Preflop: Hero is CO with 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls ...

Whether I raise to isolate or not against a single limper with a small suited ace depends on how loose villain is preflop. Anytime someone has VPIP 50%+ I will raise this for value and to isolate. As we see from previous hands, this table has been on the tight side, and not being certain about having the best hand here, I chose the easy way out and limped.

Hand 42: -------------------------------------

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises...

Hand 51: -------------------------------------

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
5 folds, Hero raises...

Once I am in MP2 or later, especially at a tight table like this, I am in raise or fold mode. Any hand worth coming in with, I will bring in for a raise. This includes some of the more marginal hands that I would normally fold to a raise, limp with limpers ahead, or sometimes even fold with limpers ahead.

Hand 61: -------------------------------------

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
6 folds, including Hero

At a loose table (such as the typical Party .5/1) I will limp. Here the table has been tight and reasonably aggressive preflop, and so I mucked. I don't hate calling but suspect it is marginally unprofitable here.

Hand 63: -------------------------------------

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $1.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP3 raises, Hero (poster) calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

This was not a misclick! For some reason, Greg's conversion neglected to notice that I had posted in the CO. (This was the first hand of the second table.)

With an unsuited connector, a limper, and a reasonable chance that a few others would cold-call behind me, I figured I could see a multi-way flop with good position for just 1 additional bet. Hence I called. I would also call in the BB with 4+ opponents. I figure that the chance that it will be re-raised behind me or that this table is also tight and everyone else folds is offset by the fact that I have better position than in the BB.

GrunchCan · #2 07-25-2005, 02:55 PM

I still agree with folding hand 1. Q8 isn't the worst hand ever, but it's not great, either. In fact, isn't it the 'computer hand'?

But mostly the reason I fold is becasue of our postflop position. If we hit something we'd like to protect like TPMK, we won't ever be able to raise or checkraise to protect, becasue all our bets will have to go through the whole field. We'll never be able to face anyone with 2.

I still fold & look for a better spot.

jrz1972 · #3 07-25-2005, 03:48 PM

Hand 1: I agree with the fold and I would not seriously have considered calling this.

Hand 14: I still raise, even if the limper is tight. Just because he's tight doesn't mean my hand isn't ahead, and even if villain limped with something like ATo, I still might pick the pot up on the flop or turn if the board misses him. While your hand is less likely to win at showdown against a tight player, tight players are generally easier to steal from, at least in the micros.

Hand 42: I honestly do not understand the philosophy behind a preflop strategy that smooth calls A3s from the CO vs. a middle position limper but raises with KJo from MP against an EP limper. Fold.

Hand 51: Fine. Folding would be fine too depending on the table, but I would raise most of the time. Limping would be abysmal, but you know that already.

Hand 61: Perfect.

Hand 63: I honestly do not like this. You wouldn't complete from the SB in an unraised pot with this hand, right? Well, the immediate odds are exactly the same when you call a raise after posting. Granted, the fact that the pot was raised improves your implied odds a bit if you flop well, since your opponents may be tied to the pot, but I don't think that's enough to justify calling this. Off-suit middle connectors are pretty much crap. If you were suited this would be an easy call, and if you had high card strength it would probably be worth the threat of domination to call, but this hand is a fold IMO.

#4 07-25-2005, 04:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 42: I honestly do not understand the philosophy behind a preflop strategy that smooth calls A3s from the CO vs. a middle position limper but raises with KJo from MP against an EP limper. Fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I was too glib posting my thoughts about this hand, I didn't notice that I wasn't first in here.

I went back and checked my PT stats, and by hand 42 PT says villain has vpip of 50. This is sufficiently loose that I feel KJ has an equity edge and I'm happy to try to isolate him with position.

I agree that the two hands are inconsistent, and overall I'd prefer to raise both hands than to call the first and fold the second. I don't recall my thinking in the hand, but I suspect I felt more conservative because I didn't have much info on the players yet so early in the table.

I've been trying to work on isolating weaker players at these tighter tables (something I never worried much about at Party .5/1 because you never saw hands with just 1 limper to you in LP) and I haven't been good about applying it broadly yet.

Thanks for pointing this out.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 63: I honestly do not like this. You wouldn't complete from the SB in an unraised pot with this hand, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

In a 6-handed pot such as here from the SB? I have no reservations about completing in that spot.

In the CO with just 2 in so far it's more debatable. On the one hand, this table was looser than the first, so I wasn't as worried about everyone behind me folding; however, it's true it is a risk. Someone may also re-raise behind me, making the hand expensive.

On the other hand, I'm in late position, I can see how much the table likes the flop, and I'm in ideal position to protect my hand if I flop something on a safe board. So as I pointed out in my original post, I think the pros and cons are a wash and I called.

detruncate · #5 07-25-2005, 05:31 PM

Hey there Anon. Sorry I haven't participated more. Spent most of the weekend in various stages of drunkennes and didn't feel up to much more than keeping the idea of Frankenplayer alive. Vive le Frankenplayer.

I don't hate a call with 87 after posting in CO. It's close enough that I wouldn't worry much one way or another. It's also easy enough to get away from.