QQ UTG with a ton of action

NYCNative · #1 07-22-2005, 02:00 PM

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (9 handed) converter

UTG+1 ($23.90)
MP1 ($19.70)
MP2 ($7.75)
MP3 ($37.16)
CO ($33.10)
Button ($15.50)
SB ($23.85)
Hero ($53.70)
UTG ($23)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.50, UTG+1 calls $0.50, 2 folds, MP3 raises to $1.75, CO calls $1.75, 2 folds, Hero raises to $4.5, UTG calls $4, UTG+1 calls $4, MP3 calls $2.75, CO calls $2.75.

Flop: ($22.75) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets $15, UTG raises all in to $18.50, UTG+1 folds, MP3 raises all in to $32.66, CO folds, Hero calls $17.66.

Turn: ($106.57) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: ($106.57) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: $106.57

---

PRE-FLOP - I had to reraise here because there was already one caller to the original raise and if I just called the limpers would have come along anyway. Apparently my reraise scared them all, didn't it. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

POST-FLOP - I have an overpair with a scary flush draw on board and a lot of opponents saw this flop so I wanted to come out aggressively. The first reraise didn't bug me but the second one did. However at this point I had to put $17.33 more into a pot to win over $100 so I felt like it was an call even though I might be behind to a set but I also might be ahead of AJ and a flush draw. When the Club fell on the turn, I hoped that won it for the main pot and not the side pot.

I shall reveal the hands after my play and reasoning gets critiqued.

djoyce003 · #2 07-22-2005, 02:10 PM

Your preflop raise was way too small. Had it been the right size then the push on the flop would have been perfunctory. You raised to 4.75 with about that much already in the pot. The two people in for $1.75 have to make a very small call here. I would have raised to the neighborhood of $8 or $10. If you are up against AA or KK then that's just too bad. After that, you are pushing any flop that has multiple callers because it will be a pot sized bet. After that flop checkraise i'm thinking you are crushed, but I'm not sure i'd fold here because like you said, you are calling about 15 to win $100.

ajmargarine · #3 07-22-2005, 02:12 PM

Pre-flop: The pot is $5.25 when it comes to you. IMO, you need to make a pot sized reraise (at least). So make it $7 to go at a minimum.

Post-flop looks fine.

NYCNative · #4 07-22-2005, 02:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Your preflop raise was way too small.

[/ QUOTE ]I have been trying to keep my pots managable except in cases where I was pretty confident I had the best hand. There is hardly any reraising preflop at this level on UB so I hoped that any reraise above the minimum was going to be respected.[ QUOTE ]
Had it been the right size then the push on the flop would have been perfunctory.

[/ QUOTE ]If I raised it to $10 I would have been pushing over $40 then. Seems excessive unless I have four callers at $10.[ QUOTE ]
After that flop checkraise i'm thinking you are crushed, but I'm not sure i'd fold here because like you said, you are calling about 15 to win $100.

[/ QUOTE ]No checkraise on the flop. I acted first.

ajmargarine · #5 07-22-2005, 02:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I have been trying to keep my pots managable

[/ QUOTE ]

Then you should have just called preflop. Because you can't go halfway like this. Once one calls, then all those behind have odds to call. Minimum amount you can raise it to here is $7. But, because of your position, and the amount of villians in the hand, I agree with the other poster, $8-$10 is better.

As you played it, you have a $22.75 pot contested by 5 players. If you raise to $9, and only get one caller, you have a ~$23 pot being played heads-up.

NYCNative · #6 07-22-2005, 02:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Then you should have just called preflop. Because you can't go halfway like this.

[/ QUOTE ]Okay, excellent advice. I don't reraise PF in cash games all that often. I do it a bit more in tournaments, but there even a smallish reraise gets respect because of the finite amount of chips.

I have generally used the 3x rule but that's evidently not a good rule of thumb for a reraise. What is a good rule of thumb for a PF reraise then in relation to the original raise or pot?

ajmargarine · #7 07-22-2005, 03:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What is a good rule of thumb for a PF reraise then in relation to the original raise or pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

With multiway action, you start with a pot-sized reraise at minimum and go up from there. Alot of it is based on feel, position, your holding, and reads; but, you can usually add then another fraction to that to get a good raise amount, ending up with something like 1 1/3 the size of the pot.

If a PFR opens and it folds to you, then 3x his PFR is fine.

NYCNative · #8 07-22-2005, 03:45 PM

Coolness. Will remember this thread.

By the way, here are the villain's holdings:

MP3 shows 9d Td.
UTG shows 4s 4h.

Queens are goot.

Cased Heel · #9 07-22-2005, 04:39 PM

Fold to the 2nd flop-all-in. That $32 one... you're beat.

NYCNative · #10 07-22-2005, 04:41 PM

Folding for an extra $17 into that sized pot? I don't feel that's prudent unless villain puts his cards face up and I'm drawing dead.