Do I bet this turn?

mattrado · #1 07-21-2005, 05:21 AM

Bet this turn? Bet the river? I have no good read on either player, except that UTG +1 is a little loose.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 5 folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (7.33 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (5.16 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (8.16 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.16 BB

Results in white below: 
UTG has Qd Ac (full house, queens full of aces).
Hero has Ad Jd (two pair, aces and queens).
Outcome: UTG wins 12.16 BB. 

Many thanks in advance!

-Matt

edit: my image was pretty tight at this table

keetz555 · #2 07-21-2005, 05:32 AM

You shouldn't have included the results.

I see no point in betting the turn. All you have is on overcard and a decent kicker. When your ace hits on the river, bet. Call the check-raise. If UTG is a loose player, he could think his AT or whatever is good. I don't see a lot of players trying to bluff two people, so he obviously caught something on the river. I like his play here.

Dariel86 · #3 07-21-2005, 05:34 AM

I wouldn't bet that turn against two opponents. If one of them have a queen your drawing dead 100% of the time. Your out of position too so you can't take a free showdown.

mattrado · #4 07-21-2005, 05:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You shouldn't have included the results.

I see no point in betting the turn. All you have is on overcard and a decent kicker. When your ace hits on the river, bet. Call the check-raise. If UTG is a loose player, he could think his AT or whatever is good. I don't see a lot of players trying to bluff two people, so he obviously caught something on the river. I like his play here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the response (and I won't include the results in the future [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]). The bet against 2 opponents is probably overvaluing my hand. I suppose a decent pocket pair probably calls me down, but I thought betting all the way might be worth something bluff-wise.
thanks again,

Matt

callmedonnie · #5 07-21-2005, 03:19 PM

Bet/fold turn, and check the river if its checked to you. The turn puts the scare card there. Check/raise could come, but you can end it right then and there.

krimson · #6 07-21-2005, 03:48 PM

I like betting this turn. I think if either villians had a Q they would lead the flop. It's only 3-way so they don't want to give a free card to something like AK, AJ, KJ, etc. You define your hand as having a Q and the turn improves you heavily (from a bluffing point of view) to something your opponents are probably drawing dead too. You get 1:5 and I think this is a good bluff. I would certainly fold to a raise.

I would bet this river as well. I can't see a Q waiting till the river to c/r you, so your hand looks to have become a winner here, and can probably get a call from weaker aces or underpairs not wanting to fold for that one last bet.

edit: is something missing from the hand? It says 4 handed but I only see action from 3 people. If there are 4 people in this hand, and we're out of position, then scrap everything I said.

Aces McGee · #7 07-21-2005, 03:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I see no point in betting the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

There are plenty of folks who take one card off on a flop like this, and fold the turn. Your two opponents could have as many as 12 outs combined against you. It's worth betting to try and fold out those six-out hands.

You might even get someone to fold middle or bottom pair.

If the board didn't pair and the turn had been a blank, that's a different story. It's now more likely that you've been called by a queen on the flop. I think a check behind is fine then.

-McGee

Aces McGee · #8 07-21-2005, 03:51 PM

Is anyone tempted to three-bet the river?

-McGee

sy_or_bust · #9 07-21-2005, 03:56 PM

Betting this turn works great against the blinds or weak limpers, but isn't as strong against mediocre+ EP players. Often these specific players have small-medium pairs they won't fold, and may raise. I'm not sure your folding equity is very good either.

Still, against weak/loose players it's a value bet (planning to cehck behind river UI) so it's a tough spot to pin down without a read. My default play is to check the turn, and consider calling a single bet on a river brick.

sy_or_bust · #10 07-21-2005, 03:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is anyone tempted to three-bet the river?

-McGee

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but I'd be more inclined to do this against UTG+1. It is conceivable that UTG was looking for overcalls with a queen+ on both earlier streets - I think this is actually the best way to play a queen here, and especially a strong one like AQ/KQ.