AA with crazy betting on flop

bnorthro · #1 07-21-2005, 09:07 AM

I've been at this table maybe 1-2 orbits, no real reads yet. Here goes - Hand converter Not working

Party Poker (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
5 folds.
1 raiser and caller before me, I reraise, and the initial raiser caps it. Call the players A, T, Hero, and E

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
This is kind of a scary flop for me, but I've still got a solid overpair. 4 to the flop.
A bets, T calls, Hero raises, E raises, A calls, T caps it, Hero folds, E calls (all in) A calls

This is some real crazy betting. I figure I have probably no outs because the A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] puts 4 to a flush on the board and with the preflop action, at least one persons got an A, maybe AK. It seemed like I was up against trips, probably Q's from the preflop action. Do you guys fold here when it's 2 more bets back to you, on a 3 flush board, with MAYBE 1 out?

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
UTG (A) checks, UTG+1 (T) checks.

River: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
A Bets, T calls
.

Final Pot: $34

I'm trying to work on not fearing the 3-flush flops when I've got a strong hand without any of the flush suits. Was this play too weak, or is it a good fold? It felt like I was way behind at the flop with Very slim chances of improving.

Thanks

Rosencrantz1 · #2 07-21-2005, 09:20 AM

It is a scary flop for you and it is certainly possible that you are beaten. With four players, it does seem likely that someone has a flush or at the very least is on a draw to one. It's very likely, as you say, that you have no outs -- not only does the A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] not help you, but it seems very possible from the betting that both aces may be out already.

With this many players it's just hard to imagine that you have better than 25% pot equity.

The fold doesn't bother me. I'm not sure I would be capable of folding it myself, but the more I think about it, the more I buy it.

PJM1206 · #3 07-21-2005, 09:29 AM

I fold. I very rarely, if ever, cold call and especailly with all the action and flop for this hand. Although pocket aces are great, with this flop I think your hand is marginal so cold calling is out for me. I am realtively new and not an expert so take my comments in that context

albedoa · #4 07-21-2005, 10:13 AM

A has a high PP, E intended to go all-in if he hit any part of the flop, and T has A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

How far off am I? Usually I would not call this, but I think it's two bets to you because T wanted the pot capped in case he hit his club.

bnorthro · #5 07-21-2005, 10:52 AM

I'm at work so I don't have the exact hands, but I think A had A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K something T had 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] -HAHAHA strong hand to be playing for 4 bets preflop. And allin guy had a K also, maybe AK[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], forget - Allin guy got $4 and A got $30. So of course, this post is a bit results oriented because I would have won, but I felt my decision was good at the time.

jrz1972 · #6 07-21-2005, 11:02 AM

You have every reason to think you're beating A. In the unlikely event he had QQ or A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], he probably would have capped the flop, and you're beating every other logical hand for him.

E's raise doesn't mean anything because he's so short-stacked. Many players spew away their last few chips. He's just getting all-in. Notice that even if E flipped over a flopped flush, you would still like to build a side pot with the other players.

T's call-cap action is weird, but when this happens I've usually ended up seeing a flush draw more often than a flopped flush.

So basically I am happy to call 2 more sbs on the flop because I think there's a pretty good chance I still have the best hand and if so it's fairly likely to hold up. I can also get away from my hand pretty easily if another [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] hits.

I call the flop and see what happens on the turn.

#7 07-21-2005, 11:22 AM

Thats a good fold. I do not think the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] even helps you here. I think you need running cards, and that you played it the way you should have.

droolie · #8 07-21-2005, 11:25 AM

That pot was huge when you folded. Sometimes you need to sling your balls over your shoulder and roll the dice.

Keep in mind that all of their play can be explained rationally as something other than a flopped flush. You really need to be an optimist in big pots and try to explain their actions as something other than the monster under the bed...

A doesn't have the flush this is obvious. He would have capped the flop.
E is correct to raise with a big club on a draw and T is correct to do what he did on the flop with a big club on a draw. The action was weird but not incorrect. You need to see the turn. If any more clubs hit (unless it's the A on the turn) you fold.

GTSamIAm · #9 07-21-2005, 12:15 PM

Call it down. People are often playing strong with the ace of clubs. If the 4th club comes though, you can lay off with pretty strong certainty that you're beat.

lufbradolly · #10 07-21-2005, 01:02 PM

I think it's important to get to the turn on this hand and then if it comes a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] then it's an easy fold but if it's a blank then you can re-evaluate. There's a good chance that someone going mental with the A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in a pot this big i think it's wrong to fold on the flop especially when you've already put 2 bets in.