5's vs 10's

[grouchie]

Looking to give SNG's a shot and see if they can be profitable for me.
I searched and found Aleo's spreadsheet which is definately a sweet piece of work.

When looking at the spreadsheet it gives a place to enter results for 11's, 22's, 33's and 55's.
Does this mean that it basically isn't worth it to start playing at the $5 level and below, and if i'm going to give it a serious shot to just start at the 11's?

thank you for your time.
grouch

[wulfheir]

The $5 SNGs on Party have a 20% rake, which is why they should be avoided. The play at the 5+1s and the 10+1s are the same.

[GtrHtr]

Correct.

Very difficult to make money at the $5's on PP with a 20% rake vs. 10% for the $10's and up.

If you really want to play the $6's, you can change the titles of the tabs on the bottom to whatever you want and adjust the baseline data in the sheet itself, i.e. the buy in etc.

[Mr_J]

You pay as much rake at the $5s as at the $10s. The $10s are no harder, so yeh start with them.

[KSKevin]

It's not a terrible idea to play the 5's, although you might want to play them on a site that offers .50 rake instead. There is a noticable difference in play between the 5's and the 10's, but the play on both is so bad that you should be able to win easily just by following Aleo's guide. If you have a bankroll of at least $200, I would just start with the 10's.

[45suited]

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There is a noticable difference in play between the 5's and the 10's, but the play on both is so bad that you should be able to win easily just by following Aleo's guide.

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There is zero difference in the level of play between the 5s and 10s. No offense to Aleo, but I would not follow his guide religiously. Good concepts (tight early play, aggressive bubble play) but I would not follow it robotically. Learn for yourself while following some of the general concepts. I think his guide contains some significant errors.

Again, no offense to him, it is a good general guideline and I doubt that even he expected people to take it so literally.

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
Very difficult to make money at the $5's on PP with a 20% rake vs. 10% for the $10's and up.

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For greater clarity, he means you will just as easily make more money at the 10s because of the higher stake and the lower (relative) rake. The way this is worded almost seems to suggest that it is hard to make money at the 5+1s. In fact it is very easy to win there.

The 5+1s are not as totally useless as some suggest. For one thing, you are less likely to lose your initial buyin there. For another, the 20% rake makes it even more preferential to "play for first" and less beneficial to "settle for third". So it can ingrain some good, aggressive habits into your bubble play if you're just starting out and need experience as much as you need winnings.

I just moved up from the 5's to the 10's. The 5's are actually a little easier. There are still the same number of fish early on to build your stack with if you can catch a hand, but bubble play and heads up is a little tougher. At the 5's you can steal almost every hand on the bubble most players just try to fold every hand and hope someone else busts out. At the 10's players will occasionally fight back a bit. I seem to have a little more trouble getting first at the 10's, so I think heads up play is a bit better on the 10's.

I would start out at the 5's until you can prove you are a winning player. It may be harder to win money at the 5's if you are a winning player, but its definently a lot easier to lose a lot of money at the 10's if you are a losing player early on.

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
There is zero difference in the level of play between the 5s and 10s.

[/ QUOTE ]

i have heard this time and again but it's not what i remember from when i was down there. Has anyone really studied this, or is this just accepted forum dogma that no one dares to challenge.

i am willing to bet up to $1 (american even) that if you were to take a sample of, say, 200 5s and 200 10s and measured the number of players alive at the end of each level that the 5s would be below the 10s at each stage. the play is terrible (absolutely, unbelievable terrible) on both levels, but players bust out even faster in the 5s. or at least that's the way it was when i played the 5s, dagnabit.

[Uppercut]

I had some good success playing the 5+1s on Party, but I recently switched over to Poker Stars because they only charge a 50 cent rake on their $5 tourneys. Also, Poker Stars has two other advantages, IMO. First, the tables are 9 handed instead of ten. This results in a slightly lower prize pool, but a greater chance of landing ITM. Secondly, and more important, you start with 1500 in chips instead of 800. This allows you to be much more patient in the early rounds.