Trying a new (to me) preflop-concept: Much looser

baronzeus · #1 07-12-2005, 02:28 AM

I'm not sure why I decided to do this, but I think having VPIP ~25-28 can be more profitable than the standard 17-21, especially at very fishy tables (45%+ per flop).

I'm going to try this 8 tabling 2/4...if anyone has tried this let me know how your results were.

For those of you who are wondering, I am basically adding a ton of suited hands in pots with a few limpers. That is, if I see 3 limpers an 4 people left to act, I will limp hands like 75s and most other one gappers.

Does anyone have any advice for this specific type of play? It's worked out to about a 28/10/2.7 type player overall, because these suited hands are so easy to play postflop.

SmileyEH · #2 07-12-2005, 02:30 AM

Your variance should go way up, but I don't think your winrate will go up or down *that* much. If anything it will be more difficult to 8 table because you will have more hands in the air at any given time. Good luck though.

-SmileyEH

krimson · #3 07-12-2005, 12:52 PM

If this was a profitable decision, don't you think someone would have done it before you?

baronzeus · #4 07-12-2005, 02:06 PM

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If this was a profitable decision, don't you think someone would have done it before you?

[/ QUOTE ]

People have done it before.

EDIT: at higher limits.

blackize · #5 07-12-2005, 02:49 PM

Just because it is profitable doesn't make it easy. Playing this way faces you with a lot more decisions and could be disastrous for a mediocre postflop player.

Paxosmotic · #6 07-12-2005, 02:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Just because it is profitable doesn't make it easy. Playing this way faces you with a lot more decisions and could be disastrous for a mediocre postflop player.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is really the most important part of the equation. You're going to be faced with a lot of marginal decisions post flop and pot odds and reads are going to become all the more important. You may want to get rid of a few tables to start because if you want to play well postflop, autopilot isn't going to work on this new system.

baronzeus · #7 07-12-2005, 03:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Just because it is profitable doesn't make it easy. Playing this way faces you with a lot more decisions and could be disastrous for a mediocre postflop player.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is obvious.

belloc · #8 07-12-2005, 04:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone have any advice for this specific type of play? It's worked out to about a 28/10/2.7 type player overall, because these suited hands are so easy to play postflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do this sort of thing (play more hands) in my live game at the local B&M. It requires not so much a loose game, but a passive game. For example, if you're going to start limping with 75s from MP, you obviously have to be reasonably certain that it won't get raised behind you.

I have that kind of certainty in my game. AK is regularly limped by my opponents. JJ? TT? AQ? Also regularly limped by the other players. Even when the game tightens up a bit (3-4 to the flop instead of the usual 7-8), it still remains fairly passive. It makes it a little tough to put players on big hands when they limp like this, so you tend to be surprised those times when the little old lady shows down her never-raised QQ on a T high board when you think your hand is good.

Example: I played T8s from EP (or maybe MP1) yesterday without concern that it was a losing play. Of course, doing this sort of thing forces you to make decisions that you wouldn't otherwise have to make. So I've limped with T8s in EP and it wasn't raised behind. But now I'm now OOP in a smallish pot, and when the flop comes down something like [9 4 2] with one of my suit, I have to decide how to play it. It just might end up costing me a bunch more bets to go too far with a small overcard and two backdoor draws. I find that I really have to fight the tendency to play passively (check/call) postflop after I've limped weakly preflop position like this. It's a good way to become just another fish at the table.

Adding hands to your *later* position playable list is a more comfortable way to experiment playing looser in passive games, yet without the difficulty of having positional issues postflop. But as has been said, it depends on your postflop ability.

EDIT: Oh, and I don't think these sorts of suited hands are easy to play postflop *at all*. As I implied above, it's real easy to put on your best Ed Miller face and start spewing chips in these situations, badly misapplying something you might have read in SSH recently. It takes a good bit of discipline to play these hands well when you flop marginal draws.

Paxosmotic · #9 07-12-2005, 05:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just because it is profitable doesn't make it easy. Playing this way faces you with a lot more decisions and could be disastrous for a mediocre postflop player.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is obvious.

[/ QUOTE ]
It is obvious. Are you good enough?

baronzeus · #10 07-12-2005, 05:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just because it is profitable doesn't make it easy. Playing this way faces you with a lot more decisions and could be disastrous for a mediocre postflop player.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is obvious.

[/ QUOTE ]
It is obvious. Are you good enough?

[/ QUOTE ]

Only time will tell.