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#1
07-12-2005, 06:00 PM
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Taking control after a check-raise
A move I recently picked up is 3-betting a check raiser with a drawing hand, to take control of the action. I especially like this play when everyone else folds. However, I am often uncertain what do do when my plan works. When he checks the turn, and I don't improve, should I fire again, hoping his check-raise was simply to thin the field, rather than for value, and try to get him to fold, or should I take the free-card? And should I call 1 more on the river with weak top pair? Here are two examples. please let me know how I should play the turn and river if I don't improve.
Hand 1: I raise 2 limpers from the button with AKo. SB calls, BB folds, limpers call. Flop: T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. It checks around to me, I bet, SB check-raises, everyone else folds, I 3-bet, SB calls. Turn: J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], SB checks. Hand 2: 3 limpers, I limp from the cut-off with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Button and SB both fold, BB checks. Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. It checks around to me, I bet, BB check-raises, everyone folds, I 3-bet. Turn: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], BB checks. 
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#2
07-12-2005, 06:07 PM
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Re: Taking control after a check-raise
[ QUOTE ]
I especially like this play when everyone else folds. [/ QUOTE ] Wow, no shit. [ QUOTE ] Hand 1: I raise 2 limpers from the button with AKo. SB calls, BB folds, limpers call. Flop: T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. It checks around to me, I bet, SB check-raises, everyone else folds, I 3-bet, SB calls. Turn: J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], SB checks. [/ QUOTE ] You don't need to be doing this here. Your draw is weak and vulnerable to redraws. Call the flop c/r, c/f UI on the turn. If you improve on the turn, re-evaluate. [ QUOTE ] Hand 2: 3 limpers, I limp from the cut-off with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Button and SB both fold, BB checks. Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. It checks around to me, I bet, BB check-raises, everyone folds, I 3-bet. Turn: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], BB checks. [/ QUOTE ] Take the free card and re-evaluate on the river.
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#3
07-12-2005, 06:10 PM
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Re: Taking control after a check-raise
i don't like it unless you have a better read on the check raiser, like that he is really bad at poker.
hand 1 - i wouldn't bet the flop into 3 loose passives with nothing but ace high. hand 2 - i don't mind as much, but i still wouldn't 3-bet. i think you need to bet this turn and check fold the river unimproved now. edit: to say that i would bet the flop into 3 loose passives on the turn and i am biased by knowing there was a check - raise. i wouldn't 3-bet...
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#4
07-12-2005, 06:22 PM
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Re: Taking control after a check-raise
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I especially like this play when everyone else folds. [/ QUOTE ] Wow, no shit. [ QUOTE ] Hand 1: I raise 2 limpers from the button with AKo. SB calls, BB folds, limpers call. Flop: T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. It checks around to me, I bet, SB check-raises, everyone else folds, I 3-bet, SB calls. Turn: J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], SB checks. [/ QUOTE ] You don't need to be doing this here. Your draw is weak and vulnerable to redraws. Call the flop c/r, c/f UI on the turn. If you improve on the turn, re-evaluate. [ QUOTE ] If I am going to call the flop c/r, isn't in better to spend 1 more bet to get him to check the turn so I can check behind and see the river for free?
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#5
07-12-2005, 06:28 PM
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Re: Taking control after a check-raise
[ QUOTE ]
If I am going to call the flop c/r, isn't in better to spend 1 more bet to get him to check the turn so I can check behind and see the river for free? [/ QUOTE ] Nope. With hands with weak draws (a gutshot and an overcard is a weak draw) it is better not to go for the free card play. And the risk of getting 3-bet sucks. And he might donkbet you on the turn. Jeez, I forgot where a good explanation of this concept is. Maybe ToP or SSHE. I forget.
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#6
07-12-2005, 07:24 PM
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Re: Taking control after a check-raise
Check both of these on the turn. You could easily be behind to a hand stronger than just a pair. Villian could be plotting another check-raise.
1: 3-betting a c/r'er on first board doesn't seem wise. Drawless board and someone in the board c/r'es. He could have a set or two pair and come over the top of you. You only have AK. Call flop c/r, then draw to a K or A. 2: 3-betting here is unwise again. I'm thinking you are possibly outkicked or behind to another set or two pair. You could easily be capped. This hand is even weaker than the first hand because if you are outkicked, you only have 3 outs. Call the flop c/r and then fold the turn if you don't improve.
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#7
07-12-2005, 07:27 PM
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Re: Taking control after a check-raise
Interesting question!
Hand 1: SB might have tried to thin the field with something like a-t. You are not going to get him to fold to the j i think. And since you properbly behind, just check it through. But the 3-betting on the flop: Positive: it might give you a free turn card, giving you double chance to get you pair. (and many others) Negative: since you are behind he might just give you hell on the turn betting out, putting you in a real bad situation. (and many others) I think one should have better drawing options, so the eventual free card on the turn should be more worthfull placing an extra flop bet for. Hand 2: Unless you had a read on BB saying that he was suicidal i wouldŽnt do that. The pot is also a bit small to try for this risky play.
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#9
07-12-2005, 10:08 PM
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Re: Taking control after a check-raise
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] hand 1 - i wouldn't bet the flop into 3 loose passives with nothing but ace high [/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Why not? [/ QUOTE ] sorry. see edit. my mistake.
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