AK hand

[mr pink]

villain is relatively unknown - stats are 48/6/1.6 -

Party Poker 3/6 (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Hero raises, folded to villain in MP who cold calls, blinds bounce, HU to the flop for 5.33 sbs

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Hero bets, villain raises, hero 3-bets???, villain calls.

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> - 5.5 bbs

Hero???

i hate these spots.

[sy_or_bust]

This is so annoying I wonder if the flop 3-bet is wise. There may be merit in a stop n go. Unfortunately, you cannot simply bet/fold the turn after the flop 3-bet.

Another idea I quite like is simply check/calling the turn and leading a non-heart river.

[clownshoes]

3betting the flop is correct
as is leading the turn

[ecooke]

This situation is a little different than normal since you're HU. However, since he is very unlikey to have flopped either a flush or hand better than yours you should 3-bet and lead any Turn. If he calls the Turn I vote for check/call any river. Against a loose aggressive opponent, which seems to be the case, you are proabably more likely to get bluffed into on the river with a hand you beat than called when you bet.
Also, if you bet the Turn and he raises I think you should fold. However, if he is capable of bluff raising the turn with a hand you beat then you should be less inclined to bet.

[mr pink]

thanks for the enlightening response. that settles everything.

[sy_or_bust]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, if you bet the Turn and he raises I think you should fold. However, if he is capable of bluff raising the turn with a hand you beat then you should be less inclined to bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Villain's raising the turn is only real issue here. A good aggressive player with position should be raising most playable hands on this turn, including many Hero beats. In my experience, a loose-passive-aggressive type tends to be even more reckless than most with scare card bluffs. I think the raise will come often enough that the flop 3-bet to turn bet/fold strategy should be reevaluated.

BTW, making blanket statements like one line or another is clearly best is often worse than useless. It'd be great to hear some reasoning.

[ecooke]

I'll take your comment into consideration for the future.

Regardless, your comments seem to suggest a Turn raising war on a single suit board now that your top two has been counterfeited. Have you considered treating this as a way ahead, way behind situation? I'll also suggest that a "good player" will often raise the turn with a lot of marginal hands against an opponent capable of folding a better hand, which I have not experienced to often be the case at this limit.

[molawn2mo]

Jeff,

As usual, I find myself in disagreement with some of the thinking, here. I am open to being humbled by a more rigorous analysis, though.

I am too lazy and ill-equipped to prove this, but after the flop a thinking villain should think that (to an observer) his hand is more likely to have the nutflush or 2 nd nutflush. Why... JJ/TT, AJ/AT are the only TAG UTG raising hands that apply (12 hands). Whereas, Villain can CC with many more hand containing Jh or Th.

So... your flop 3bet is for value and for FE though the only hands that you want villain to fold contain hearts and if I were villain there is no way I am folding any hand containing a heart. So I give you little FE on the flop.

Now, if I am villain I have already decided that you should think that I am more likely to have a heart so when the turn puts the 4th heart on board I am raising anything and you should know this so you are toast here. You should conclude that you are drawing to 4 outs, at best, and you do not have the odds to do so.

IMHO, that is how a thinking analysis would go. Whether villain is up to that I have no clue.

This is a great metagame situation.

His stats are pretty LAG, though, and maybe he was bluffing the flop. If you knew that he would fold to the flop 3 bet, I would then like it. If he would not then I don't like it and would choose to call he flop raise, check call the heart turn, check call the river UI with the reasonable expectation that he may be LAG enough to continue the charade with his black 9s. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[ecooke]

Do I understand correctly that you assume a thinking 3/6 LAG villain?

[oreogod]

I think against a good player and against a LAGish player...this turn is going to get raised if u bet it (a decent percent of the time -- Id probably semi bluff raise this turn here). If it gets raised, are u sure you are good, or if u fold, are u folding the best hand? I think it would be hard to call a raise here and then have to call the river (as u are pretty much commited to doing.)

Possible str8 draw is out there, 4 to a flush...if u want to see a showdown, Id rather pay 2 bets instead of 3. Dunno, but I think u are getting popped here quite often.

Just because u three bet preflop, doesnt not obligate u to follow through everytime a four flush or four to a str8 comes on the turn. My only problem is if he raises...where does that put you?

Obviously, if u check you pretty much look like you are giving up. So I dont quite know where I stand. I like bet/fold...but its possible u could be folding the best hand .

It was also brought up in another post, the check/call turn lead the river is probably decent. Id fold to a river raise.