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  #1  
Old 07-08-2005, 10:43 PM
JooWish622 JooWish622 is offline
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Default OESF draw on the turn against Stop and Go. 2-4 game. Call or push?

Hand at 2-4 game at B&M cardclub.
Villian is a solid player, tight player but not a rock. 620 behind.
8 handed
Hero has 800 behind. dealt A3 spades on button. MP limps who's horrible with 300 behind, hero limps, Button raises to 12. Blinds folds, two calls.

Pot (42) Flop is T46,4 and 6 are spades ,T diamond. Checked to button. Hero bets 30. Mp folds, Villian calls.

Turn: Pot (102) 5c. Villian bets 60. Has about 520 left. Hero's move?

I was unsure whether or not this was weak or no. My guesses was that Villain had 5-7, or 5-3 for a pair and a draw and was pricing himself in/ not allowing a free card for a flush draw and would be the river if he missed the draw. I put him on this about 50 percent of the time. 25 percent of the time I put him on JT or 9T and hte other 25 percent of the time I put him on two pair or better.

THe question is, if I raise here to say 240, and if he comes over the top with his huge hand, this leaves me with a tough decsiion because I am faced wit ha marginal call. Why is this situation I would like to avoid? Is it because it would be more +EV to just call, make a hand or bluff a river card. Raising, even though it wouldnt make it -ev for me to call, would just make a +ev situation marginal. This same application also applies to turn plays in position, or even OOP against an aggressive player, with TP and a 4 flush. One would rather take a free card and make a +EV check, then bet and have a much worse hand fold and have a better hand push and leave you with a marginal call. What other situations are there like this where one would rather end the action and see another card for cheap, then bet/raise? It seems like this would make a lot of my decisions easier, and randomize my aggressive semi-bluffing and turn-checks.

Also, with a deeper stack, Should I be more inclined to call or push? Say theres 1000 behind. If I raise here, I can still make an easy fold if he coems over hte top? Is this line of thinking correct? Plus I would rather play a big pot in position. With a shorter stack, I should probably just call since he'll more likely make a "correct" call since hes getting odds to call with a lot of hands.

Anyway, Whats my move this hand? It seems like he has just enoguh money in front of him to make my decision a tough one, since I would not want to call a reraise.
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  #2  
Old 07-08-2005, 11:00 PM
flawless_victory flawless_victory is offline
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Default Re: OESF draw on the turn against Stop and Go. 2-4 game. Call or push?

the action in this hand is totally messed up and its pretty hard to figure out whats going on. i think you should prob just call the turn and try to make the nuts. if you really want to raise, moving allin will avoid the sticky situation with the stack sizes... youre gonna have to call anyway.
call if you think hes strong, move in if you think hes weak. easy.
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  #3  
Old 07-09-2005, 12:23 PM
JooWish622 JooWish622 is offline
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Default Re: OESF draw on the turn against Stop and Go. 2-4 game. Call or push?

bump
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  #4  
Old 07-09-2005, 01:37 PM
iceman5 iceman5 is offline
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Default Re: OESF draw on the turn against Stop and Go. 2-4 game. Call or push?

I cant really figure out who is who in this hand either, but I agree that I would probably just call. hes giving pretty good odds and will probably pay you off if you hit. Especially if you hit the straight.
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  #5  
Old 07-09-2005, 02:04 PM
JooWish622 JooWish622 is offline
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Default *Edited post*

Hand at 2-4 game at B&M cardclub.
Villian is a solid player, tight player but not a rock. 620 behind.
8 handed
Hero has 800 behind. dealt A3 spades on button. MP limps who's horrible with 300 behind, Villian limps, Button raises to 12. Blinds folds, two calls.

Pot (42) Flop is T46,4 and 6 are spades ,T diamond. Checked to button. Hero bets 30. Mp folds, Villian calls.

Turn: Pot (102) 5c. Villian bets 60. Has about 520 left. Hero's move?

I was unsure whether or not this was weak or no. My guesses was that Villain had 5-7, or 5-3 for a pair and a draw and was pricing himself in/ not allowing a free card for a flush draw and would be the river if he missed the draw. I put him on this about 50 percent of the time. 25 percent of the time I put him on JT or 9T and hte other 25 percent of the time I put him on two pair or better.

THe question is, if I raise here to say 240, and if he comes over the top with his huge hand, this leaves me with a tough decsiion because I am faced wit ha marginal call. Why is this situation I would like to avoid? Is it because it would be more +EV to just call, make a hand or bluff a river card. Raising, even though it wouldnt make it -ev for me to call, would just make a +ev situation marginal. This same application also applies to turn plays in position, or even OOP against an aggressive player, with TP and a 4 flush. One would rather take a free card and make a +EV check, then bet and have a much worse hand fold and have a better hand push and leave you with a marginal call. What other situations are there like this where one would rather end the action and see another card for cheap, then bet/raise? It seems like this would make a lot of my decisions easier, and randomize my aggressive semi-bluffing and turn-checks.

Also, with a deeper stack, Should I be more inclined to call or push? Say theres 1000 behind. If I raise here, I can still make an easy fold if he coems over hte top? Is this line of thinking correct? Plus I would rather play a big pot in position. With a shorter stack, I should probably just call since he'll more likely make a "correct" call since hes getting odds to call with a lot of hands.

Anyway, Whats my move this hand? It seems like he has just enoguh money in front of him to make my decision a tough one, since I would not want to call a reraise.
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