The Idea of Intelligence

[CollinEstes]

I was having a discussion with my wife about the idea of a person being very intelligent. The person we were discussing had a very high IQ but had terrible social skills and doesn't not take care of himself at all physically. This is just one example of my question below.

My question is does having a high IQ really all you need to be considered an intelligent person? Does lacking in common sense or proper social skills not show also some lack of intelligence. Or is a person that doesn't take proper care of his body and his apperance does that not also show some lack of intelligence. Or what about a truely smart person who doesn't use his knowledge to better himself or the world in any real way, is he truely intelligent?

This may seem like a stupid question but I have a hard time with most people I meet who are considered "highly" intelligent because most of them lack the basic social or personal skills that most people have. To me that shows that while they may have a great understand of math or science they don't have any understanding of the skills that are more important in life and thus show a lack of intelligence.

Just curious what anyone else thinks about this.

[drudman]

It really just depends on your definition of intelligence. I define it as just your IQ. So intelligence isn't anything too special by my definition. A person like the one you describe above, of which I have the misfortune of knowing several, is intelligent, antisocial, and unhygenic. But intelligent nonetheless.

I am reminded of this scene from The Breakfast Club:

Bender - You must be a [censored] idiot.
Brian - What, I'm an idiot because I can't build a lamp?
Bender - No, you're a genius because you can't build a lamp.

[PairTheBoard]

This is why I submited Nicole Kidman's name for the 10 most Influencial People list.

PairTheBoard

[SheetWise]

Intelligence is very different from knowledge or common sense. It's the ability to process information and make conections between what others see as seemingly unrelated data and events. Imagine a person with an IQ of 150 having to spend most of his public life dealing with IQs of 100 -- it is analagous to a normal person having to deal with morons -- they simply don't see the world in the same way. These people may not have much interest in the "normal" world. The person you describe is the typical Mensan -- a recent questionaire sent to Mensans asked why they joined the group, and what they get out of the gatherings -- the most common answer was simply to be around people who get their jokes.

SheetWise

[Bodhi]

I get really tired of people like you who think I ought to dress nicer, shave more often, or be familiar with petty things like social graces. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Just kidding.

The people you speak of simply place a higher value on their fields of study than on anything else. Civilization probably would not have come very far without this type, so let them do their thing.
As for the word "intelligence," I have no problem with a division between theoretical and practical intelligence. In fact, for Aristotle, a virtuous person had to have both.

[CollinEstes]

[ QUOTE ]
I get really tired of people like you who think I ought to dress nicer, shave more often, or be familiar with petty things like social graces. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Just kidding.

The people you speak of simply place a higher value on their fields of study than on anything else. Civilization probably would not have come very far without this type, so let them do their thing.
As for the word "intelligence," I have no problem with a division between theoretical and practical intelligence. In fact, for Aristotle, a virtuous person had to have both.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not trying to change what anyone is doing, I just was challenging what people see as intelligent.

[BZ_Zorro]

[ QUOTE ]
I was having a discussion with my wife about the idea of a person being very intelligent. The person we were discussing had a very high IQ but had terrible social skills and doesn't not take care of himself at all physically. This is just one example of my question below.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is an example of a person who is highly intelligent but can only in apply that intelligence in specific or controlled environments. Decisiveness and energy are what turn IQ into well developed life skills.

[ QUOTE ]
Does lacking in common sense or proper social skills not show also some lack of intelligence.

[/ QUOTE ] It shows a lack of interest and heart. I don't think they're really related to intelligence, more attitude and experience.

I studied physics and math at a good university, and spent a lot of time around these types. I also tutored for a couple of years. In my experience most of these types aren't really that intelligent at all, they just study hard and develop specialised skills. There are very few who exhibit adaptability of thought or who do well when faced with truly novel situations.

I'd also add that if he is truly intelligent, he probably craves stimulation that he can't find in your or others' company. Most people (especially socially adept ones) are terribly dull to someone who's spent their life pondering things that actually matter.

Just my two cents.

[CollinEstes]

Thanks for the thoughts Zorro I agree with alot of what you said.

I have no problem with any type of person, I didn't mean to sound like that, I just thought it was intresting to think about what we consider to be a intelligent or smart person. To me a smart/intelligent person is someone who not only has a high IQ but also is well adjusted and has their pirorities in the right place for them.

[Siegmund]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a hard time with most people I meet who are considered "highly" intelligent because most of them lack the basic social or personal skills that most people have. To me that shows that while they may have a great understand of math or science they don't have any understanding of the skills that are more important in life and thus show a lack of intelligence.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thats a reasonable viewpoint. If you're the sort of person who believes social skills are more important than mathematical/scientific intelligence.

I am one of those science types who isn't much for socializing. I admit it. In my more hotblooded youth I was fiercely proud of it.

I have three answers for you. None of them is complete, but each adresses one part of the gulf between us.

Some of us are socially inept because we (in our opinions) have better things to do with our time than, to pick an example at random, learn how to dance. The people who go to nightclubs think we are worse than apes, and we think the same of them; hey, finally something we agree on. That's a simple difference of opinion about what's a good way of spending time. I am content to let them "waste" their lives dancing to rock and roll if they will let me "waste" mine attending operas and reading books. (All nonfiction, of course, except for mythology and a few classics like Goethe and Schiller in the original German.)

There are also certain social norms that don't make a great deal of logical sense. These are rules we know how to follow, but can't be bothered with. Yes, I know how to put on a necktie. I know that in "business" they are considered essential clothing. And I know that they are uncomfortable and have no practical use. So I don't wear one. And I work for an employer that understands that fact; my boss doesn't wear one either. Yes, I know that in the United States, you are supposed to cut your food with knife in right hand and fork in left, then put down the knife and use the right hand to lift the food to your mouth. I also know that there's no reason other than cultural norms for this (and had a Canadian grandmother who ate with fork in left hand her whole life even while living in the states.) By contrast, I DO always hold doors open for ladies; there's a good reason for that; I get to stare at her ass while she passes by and I walk in right behind her. So, if I am being myself, I may come across as an uncultured slob. On the rare occasions I choose to put on an act for someone I can, but I rarely choose to do so.

That brings me to reason #3.

I have some principles. I tell it like it is. Honesty is the best policy, my mother always said. If you share an idiotic idea that will never work with me and ask my opinion of it, I will tell you straight up you how stupid it is - whether you are a stranger, friend, neighbor, grandfather, boss, general, or President. Furthermore, I expect you to do the same to me knowing I wouldn't be offended by it - and may regard you as a despicable liar for the rest of my life if you softplay it and "let me down gently" instead of coming right out and telling me you won't date me, won't hire me, won't agree with me idea. (This is why, for instance, I hate being called "Sir." It's theoretically a token of respect - but, in practice, it's a word spoken only by those who either want something from me -- "Sir, may I have a moment of your time to try to sell you this subscription to Nightclub Scene Weekly?" -- or are giving me thinly veiled orders -- "sir, may I empty your carefully packed backpack all over the table and makes a mess of it so I can see that that pointy object on the x-ray is a fountain pen nib and not something really dangerous like a nail clipper?" -- or someone refusing to give me satisfaction -- "I'm sorry, sir, but there are no rooms with working air conditioning available".)

I am sure I've missed out on some opportunities because of telling it how it is. So be it. I don't mind being called socially inept for it. I am satisfied that it earns me the respect of those who are worth my time, and most of the ones who are put off by it I am better off without.

[CollinEstes]

Siegmund I appreciate your response and I agree with alot of what you are saying. However my question isn't why don't people with IQs worry more about their social skills, it was does that make them not as intelligent. I don't think it makes them stupid just wondering if that should be a consideration when you think about a person as intelligent.

Also I hear what you are saying about dancing in the club but I wasn't talking about being popular in college, I was talking about the ability to handle yourself in a manner that will not put off people from wanting to be around (unless they do it by design).

And while I can respect your opinion about "telling it like it is" you don't tell your wife that she is fat." sparing people's feelings and acting in an apporiate manner is just nice for society. The world would be a terrible place if everyone just was 100% honest all the time.

And attire isn't really what I was thinking about. I am talking about obesity or not taking care of ones body, i.e. exercise. Because body and mind are connected.