Rules Question, $1,000 WSOP "Mega" Super-Sat Qualifier

[tipperdog]

125 entrants, 12 seats to the big dance (13th gets a small prize). 13 players left at two tables, playing hand-for-hand. I am a mid-small stack (maybe 8th in chips). 7 at my table. 6 (including the two short stacks) at the other table. However, the blinds are so big that we're all short stacks. (Example: I have T14,000...blinds/antes are 1K/2K/400.)

The tourney has a mix of pros and experienced amateurs, with a few wild cards mixed in. Two of the wild cards are at my table, and they don't appear to understand sat. strategy. There's a lot of chat at our table about the desperation of the two short stacks opposite (example: "the short stack will be in the BB in two hands!"). Are we trying to influence those at our table to avoid making moves? You betcha. However, there is no direct discussion about strategy. At one point, it's folded to me in the SB with AK. I fold face up. Am I trying to send a message? Yep.

The wild cards at our table get the message. Approximately 20 hands are folded to the BB at our table. Two big name pros are backing/supporting one of the short stacks at the other table and start accusing our table of collusion. They cite my AK fold as evidence.

The pros "demand" that the tournament directors redraw for tables to break up the collusion. The TD is a junior guy and it looks like he's going to do as they suggest. I go ballistic, arguing there is no justification for redraw nor any support for that sanction in TDA rules. My position: If the TD thinks someone is softplaying, they should impose a penalty. However, they cannot arbitrarily reshuffle just because some big-name pro makes an accusation.

Q1. What, if anything, should the TD do?
Q2. Was my AK face-up fold unwise? illegal? unethical? or none of the above?

[Kevmath]

Folding AK faceup like that was rather silly, in my opinion you helped give them a case for any suspected collusion. I assume the BB was a monster stack?

Kevin...

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
125 entrants, 12 seats to the big dance (13th gets a small prize). 13 players left at two tables, playing hand-for-hand. I am a mid-small stack (maybe 8th in chips). 7 at my table. 6 (including the two short stacks) at the other table. However, the blinds are so big that we're all short stacks. (Example: I have T14,000...blinds/antes are 1K/2K/400.)

The tourney has a mix of pros and experienced amateurs, with a few wild cards mixed in. Two of the wild cards are at my table, and they don't appear to understand sat. strategy. There's a lot of chat at our table about the desperation of the two short stacks opposite (example: "the short stack will be in the BB in two hands!"). Are we trying to influence those at our table to avoid making moves? You betcha. However, there is no direct discussion about strategy. At one point, it's folded to me in the SB with AK. I fold face up. Am I trying to send a message? Yep.

The wild cards at our table get the message. Approximately 20 hands are folded to the BB at our table. Two big name pros are backing/supporting one of the short stacks at the other table and start accusing our table of collusion. They cite my AK fold as evidence.

The pros "demand" that the tournament directors redraw for tables to break up the collusion. The TD is a junior guy and it looks like he's going to do as they suggest. I go ballistic, arguing there is no justification for redraw nor any support for that sanction in TDA rules. My position: If the TD thinks someone is softplaying, they should impose a penalty. However, they cannot arbitrarily reshuffle just because some big-name pro makes an accusation.

Q1. What, if anything, should the TD do?
Q2. Was my AK face-up fold unwise? illegal? unethical? or none of the above?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know what the tourney director should do.

However I would put this as a thought exercize. Would you consider it proper to commence a discussion saying, there are two short stacks at the other table and its very likely one of them will go out soon as they will either blind out or be forced to go all in...if everybody on our table folds to the BB nobody at our table will go out unless the antes get big enough to put somebody all in and so we should all get a seat?

Wrong eh?

How about if you wrote that down and passed it around instead of saying it?

Still wrong?

How about if you said a shortened version? Gosh, if we all fold every hand we are all likely to get a seat?

How about if instead of saying it you got up and did an interpretive dance to convey the idea?

Or what if, instead of saying it directly, you tried to get the idea accross by speaking in code "the short stacks are about to hit the Blinds!!" and folding AK face up?


I leave the conclusions to you...

--Zetack

[bugstud]

fun. I'm sorry, but you folding into a seat is a legit option for you at this point, and as such I'm not risking my damn tourney on AK there, especially if the BB is a guy who'd call with QT there.

[tipperdog]

[ QUOTE ]
Folding AK faceup like that was rather silly, in my opinion you helped give them a case for any suspected collusion. I assume the BB was a monster stack?

Kevin...

[/ QUOTE ]

Oddly, there really were no monster stacks. However, BB was in the top 5 for sure and had me outchipped (maybe 35K).

Regardless, I can accept that my fold was "silly," but was it actionable?

[TheMainEvent]

[ QUOTE ]
They cite my AK fold as evidence.

[/ QUOTE ]

They thought this was strange? I would sooner play 72o from UTG in a ring game than play AK on the bubble of a super-sat with comfortable chips.

[mace25]

SO WHAT HAPPENED? are you in the main event?

[Nick B.]

Satellites are so dumb for this reason. They should be cash payouts as well as seats.

[tipperdog]

The tourney directors caucused (this was the same night as the Vinny Vinh F-bomb incident, so TD patience was short). They ultimately gave us a stern warning about collusion. They also directed the railbirds (including the big pros sweating their protege) to leave the area--a warning they completely ignored. About 5 hands later, the short stacked busted.

I'M IN THE BIG DANCE BABY...So excited, I can hardly stand it. Hope I don't [f-bomb] it up too badly.

Also, in retrospect, I agree with Kev that my AK fold face up was silly. It wasn't even close to the line, IMO, but it gave the pros something to complain about. No sense in having done that...

[Kevmath]

That's the point I was trying to make, in my own confusing way. It just would have worked best to play your game, not "smarten up" the wild cards and hope they bust so you get in.

Good luck!

Kevin...