Vagical?

sthief09 · #1 07-02-2005, 04:46 PM

MP- 31.5/10.5/1.2 in full games
Button- 23/8/1.9 in full games

Party Poker 20/40 Hold'em (5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $20.
MP raises, Button calls, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, MP calls, Button calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, MP calls, Button raises, Hero calls, MP calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, MP checks, Button bets, Hero calls, MP calls.

River: (11 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, MP checks, Button bets, Hero folds, MP calls.

Final Pot: 13 BB

Trix · #2 07-02-2005, 04:52 PM

QJ/QT/JT seem likely enough to call on the end imo.

wheelz · #3 07-02-2005, 04:57 PM

I do the same

Seems close though, I don't know if it's necessarily a good fold, but I think someone 23/8 has some passiveness to him, and I don't think he'd bet many worse hands there. Does his AF mean he doesn't have any passiveness to him postflop though? I'm not really good with PT stats...

donger · #4 07-02-2005, 05:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
MP- 31.5/10.5/1.2 in full games
Button- 23/8/1.9 in full games

Party Poker 20/40 Hold'em (5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $20.
MP raises, Button calls, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, MP calls, Button calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, MP calls, Button raises, Hero calls, MP calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, MP checks, Button bets, Hero calls, MP calls.

River: (11 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, MP checks, Button bets, Hero folds, MP calls.

Final Pot: 13 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe this is naiveté talking, but why call the turn and not the river? If you were good there, you're still good at the end. Judging by his stats, MP probably has a crappy pocket pair enough times that you don't have to worry about discouraging an overcall.

joker122 · #5 07-02-2005, 05:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe this is naiveté talking, but why call the turn and not the river? If you were good there, you're still good at the end, and MP probably has a crappy pocket pair enough times that you don't have to worry about discouraging his overcall.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm also a bit confused by this. thief's thinking might be that he doesn't value bet a queen here or doesn't bluff a missed draw.

wheelz · #6 07-02-2005, 05:08 PM

He's getting 9:1 with 5 outs

ISF · #7 07-02-2005, 05:08 PM

I doubt you see a weaker hand from a player valuebetting there. Maybe on occation another AQ, but I doubt often enough to warrent a call here.

donger · #8 07-02-2005, 05:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
He's getting 9:1 with 5 outs

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I get that part, I just think that the pot is swollen enough at that end that you're getting odds to call.

From the hands I've seen from sthief lately (like the raise-fold TPTK to a donkbet-3bet on the river), he might be getting a little fancy with his river laydowns.

Aside: maybe I'm not getting fancy enough with my laydowns? Calling this at 5/10 6max is totally SOP for me.

wheelz · #9 07-02-2005, 05:26 PM

Look at how the hand played out though. Sure by the river the pot has gotten swollen, but the button has also done nothing but show strength postflop into a UTG raiser and 3-bettor from the BB on a KQ2 flop. Because the pot is swollen and multiway villain knows he's getting called, and I don't think he'd bet a worse hand on the river often enough.

It certainly wouldn't be a bad call, but I think it is a good fold

Justin A · #10 07-02-2005, 05:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Maybe this is naiveté talking, but why call the turn and not the river? If you were good there, you're still good at the end. Judging by his stats, MP probably has a crappy pocket pair enough times that you don't have to worry about discouraging an overcall.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true. Button can bet the turn with a lot of hand that Stheif is ahead of, and even if he's behind he usually has outs. When he continues on the river into two opponents we can narrow his hand range down much further.