A PokerStars 5/10 SH hand - AKo

augie00 · #1 06-30-2005, 05:59 PM

I think this is a pretty clear fold on the river. Who agrees?

PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (8 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

River: (8 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, BB folds, Hero folds, Button folds.

Final Pot: 9 BB

SmileyEH · #2 06-30-2005, 06:02 PM

Is this a joke? Call the flop, bet the turn, call the river. I know you're a good nl player - but this hand stinks.

edit: that was a bit harsh. Raising the flop is prolly ok. But you must call this river.

-SmileyEH

augie00 · #3 06-30-2005, 06:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is this a joke? Call the flop, bet the turn, call the river. I know you're a good nl player - but this hand stinks.

-SmileyEH

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not a joke.

So you prefer the line that gets you no information whatsoever?

edit: oops. didn't see the edit.

SmileyEH · #4 06-30-2005, 06:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is this a joke? Call the flop, bet the turn, call the river. I know you're a good nl player - but this hand stinks.

edit: that was a bit harsh. Raising the flop is prolly ok. But you must call this river.

-SmileyEH

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not a joke.

So you prefer the line that gets you no information whatsoever?

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is, that in limit-the information you gain is rarely worth the price you need to pay.

-SmileyEH

augie00 · #5 06-30-2005, 06:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The problem is, that in limit-the information you gain is rarely worth the price you need to pay.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd prefer to let others elaborate, but I think in the case of this hand you are wrong, and that is doing quick mental math in my head. And I am no good at math. But I will do the math out loud if nobody else replies.

jason_t · #6 06-30-2005, 06:16 PM

wtf?

synthtrance · #7 06-30-2005, 06:19 PM

I don't understand your play here. You raise the flop presumably to get info but then check the turn and fold the river?
It seems like you were ready to fold just anywhere when faced with a bet.

Grease · #8 06-30-2005, 06:22 PM

I definitely don't agree here. Bet the turn, call the river.

If c/r, reevaluate based on player type, but I'm probably seeing showdown here.

Folding here made me cringe.

ThisHo · #9 06-30-2005, 06:22 PM

how is this a fold Getting 9:1? Are you that sure that SB or Button has a J or AA or 44 or 22? I'm not. I think its completely possible that villain has a 4 or QQ or TT or something else that made them call the flop 2 bet and then wanted to see the action on the turn before proceeding. When the turn gets checked through they are thinking that the J isn't out there and they go ahead and fire.

I think I see your thought process : you think that SB called the flop hoping to c/r the turn, then it got checked through which sucked so he led out the river. Thats certainly possible, but I don't think I'd put 9:1 on it. I think its a call and fold if Button raises behind us.

side note ... might have been better to just ask what your action should be on the river or possibly show that you folded and ask for opinions. As much as I don't want it to, knowing that button folded really makes saying "call" MUCH easier (and yes, I'm a noob poster)

ThisHo

augie00 · #10 06-30-2005, 06:29 PM

Ok I will give it a shot, I am bad at math so this could be very wrong, and if it is I aplogzie.

Augie line:

On the flop, there are 8SB in the pot. The BB comes out firing. I know the BB doesn't have anything, so I raise costing me an extra 1/2BB. I see that two (2) people come in behind me, cold calling, and the BB calls. Okay, so chances are someone has a J.

Money invested after the flop: 1 BB

Smiley line:

On the flop, there are 8SB in the pot. The BB comes out firing, and since I think I have the best hand I call. Two others come in behind me, and I have no idea what they have at all.

Money invested after the flop: .5BB

Augie line:

The turn comes off...a king! Holy cow! Wait a minute...I thought I was winning on the flop...so this card didn't help me, right? And two people cold called my raise, so there is a darn good chance one of them has a J. Button closes the action with a check.

Money invested after the flop: 1BB

Smiley line:

The turn comes off...a king! Holy cow! So I fire out a bet on the turn, and one of two things happens: I get 1 or more calls, or the SB or BB check-raises me. So I'm either still getting no info, or I'm getting a ton of info (one of them has a jack.)

Money invested after the flop: 1.5BB or 2.5BB

Augie line:

Wow, SB comes firing out on the last street. I bet he has something. I bet there's a good chance that he can beat kings, and since I did a good job of controlling the pot on the turn it is still small and I can afford to fold this, so I do.

Money invested postflop: 1BB

Smiley line:

Wow, the SB comes firing out on the last street after check-raising me. Guess I gotta call since I made those kings.

Money invested after the flop: 2.5BB or 3.5BB

By check/folding I saved myself at least 1.5BB! Investing half a BB to save 1.5 seems like it's worth the trouble. But maybe I am wrong. Someone correct me, because I think I am right.